| Author | Message | ||
| Teresa White
Intermediate Member Username: teresa_white Post Number: 495 Registered: 01-2005 |
Alternate Me (for Theodore Roethke) The sun casts roof shadows of witches’ hats, snow falls hard then leaves me picking my way through icy islands as I follow pedestrian explorers to the corner store. Not even cold weather can chill my lopsided exuberance. I don’t think of spring, live in the here and now but soon my telepathy will kick in and my wife will sense the change. Already I am feeling god-like, dance around the house, a big bear oblivious to missteps or an unbalanced calf. I look out the windows more and more; become curious-- see the neighbors have a new car and I’m pleased that it is red and then I wake earlier and earlier, stay up later and later. I turn the volume up on everything. I crave a war of sounds to kick me into the next battle, the lines drawn years ago before I learned not to tell and maybe no one will notice that I can hear God talking. I try to turn down his huge voice but cannot find the control so I let Him speak. Only now do my wife and friends offer me a lift to bedlam again-- visiting hours from nine to nine but I’m already occupied. Two Christs get into an argument; I’m the referee. | ||
| Karen L Monahan
Intermediate Member Username: klhmonahan Post Number: 639 Registered: 08-2004 |
I love this, Teresa! Lots of powerful feelings brought to the page. I'd consider that last bit: ... but I'm occupied as referee and two of these Christs like to argue. or something like that.. Really, Teresa, this is the finest I've read by you, and that is saying a lot. (((smile))) Karen | ||
| Zephyr
Senior Member Username: zephyr Post Number: 3720 Registered: 07-2003 |
Very good Teresa, a wonderful description of the manic phase of manic depression. | ||
| Charlotte Fairley
New member Username: fair Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2005 |
Ah, Teresa, I like this very much! Having had some experience with working with bipolar patients, I can relate to the narrator's experience. liked a lot! Fair | ||
| D B
New member Username: dddan Post Number: 38 Registered: 12-2005 |
To quote Charlotte: 'I can relate to the narrator's experience.' The only thing I would dispute is the telepathy - have had too many experiences to dismiss this phenomenon as a depressive's folly...  | ||
| LJ Cohen
Moderator Username: ljc Post Number: 3841 Registered: 07-2002 |
Teresa, It might be interesting to experiment with longer lines at the start, then start with the choppy shorter lines to reflect the descent into madness and mania. Enjoyed this piece quite a lot. best, ljc Once in a Blue Muse Blog | ||
| Zephyr
Senior Member Username: zephyr Post Number: 3723 Registered: 07-2003 |
No crit about the telepathy bit in your poem, there is room for all opinions! In agreement with DB about telepathy though. I'm even telepahic with animals! Once I was driving home from work and the thought popped imto my head The dog is in trouble in the sea...my next thought was ...silly fool dogs can swim and I dismissed it! When I arrived home I found both the dog and my partner dripping wet, he had taken the dog a walk along the beach and the dog jumped off a groin into deep water and panicked - my partner had to wade in fully clothed and fish the dog out! A pea brain great dane...but very loveable! BTW loved the end of your poem,spread a broad grin over my face even though it's a serious subject.Just had to pop back for a second read. (Message edited by zephyr on January 23, 2006) | ||
| Teresa White
Intermediate Member Username: teresa_white Post Number: 497 Registered: 01-2005 |
Thank you all for taking the time to comment. I appreciate each suggestion to make this a better poem. DB, I can see your reservations about my including "telepathy" here --though it has been my personal experience (when in a manic state) to think I am telepathic -- I've done some research on Roethke's type of manic/depression and find that we both share the same type of this disorder; namely, that mania rather than depression is the main culprit. This is true in only about 15% of the bipolar population. I hope I'm not being too "confessional" in relating this. Heck, according to stats, a sizeable 20% of all poets who ever lived were bipolar. My experiences with this often creep into my poems. Thanks again everyone, Teresa | ||
| Zephyr
Senior Member Username: zephyr Post Number: 3726 Registered: 07-2003 |
Teresa, you are right and you are not being too confessional, bipolar personalities are often very creative. I had the same type as you, very late onset,...no depression at all and fortunately only two manic episodes when I was stressed, have been fine since and haven't even needed medication for the last 7 years. I take care to avoid stress and make sure I get enough sleep. I wouldn't mind betting there are a few more around here. | ||
| Christopher T George
Senior Member Username: chrisgeorge Post Number: 3917 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Teresa Powerful ending to this poem. Some of the rest of the poem I think though could be trimmed or freshened up to make so some work is needed to bring the poem to where it should be, IMHO. The beginning appears a bit confused in construction. You talk about the sun and the snow and then you say "leaves me" -- what is leaving the sun or the snow? Or do you mean the snow (I assume) is not leaving but that the speaker may be found picking their way through icy islands? Why not make it "ice islands" rather than "icy islands"? The "here and now" seems a bit clichéed given other elements of the poem that are fresher. The second stanza might show the speaker to advantage, full of joy, if a somewhat mad and unhinged joy. Overall, this stanza is more straightforward, livelier and more interesting I think than the opening stanza, which appears to me a bit problematical as to what is going on and the opening could be better constructed. No construction problems though in that nice stanza 2. "I wake earlier and earlier, stay up later / and later." -- Why not more economically, "I wake earlier, stay up later." I love the huge voice of God and other elements in the third stanza which really add to the story. Nice writing. Of course, you will know, I think, that "Bedlam" was the old London lunatic asylum, and is where the term came from, actually a contraction of "Bethlehem Hospital" and this term fits in very nicely with the mental disarrangement you chronicle, which I am imagining is meant to be Roethke's mental imbalance -- is that right? The ending, "Two Christs get into an argument; / I’m the referee" is spectacular, Teresa. Bravo! Overall, excellent work, Teresa, though as I noted I do believe some work is needed to finalize the poem to make it shine like a gem throughout as it deserves to do. Good luck. Chris (Message edited by Chrisgeorge on January 23, 2006) Editor, Desert Moon Review http://www.desertmoonreview.com/ Co-Editor, Loch Raven Review http://www.lochravenreview.com/ http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/ | ||
| Teresa White
Intermediate Member Username: teresa_white Post Number: 498 Registered: 01-2005 |
Zephyr, Thanks for your supportive comment. You're quite fortunate to have suffered through only two manias. Glad to hear you're symptom free now! I've lost count of mine by now --been hospitalized over 30 times since onset at age 18. Thankfully, the meds have gotten better over the years and I haven't been ill enough for the hospital now in over three years. This disorder has messed with my life though --cut short my college education, made it difficult to get and keep jobs, etc. etc. But I have the poetry which sustains me through the rough times. I also paint occasionally. Thanks again for understanding. Btw, at another forum where I participated for years, there were five admitted bipolar poets. My best, Teresa | ||
| Teresa White
Intermediate Member Username: teresa_white Post Number: 499 Registered: 01-2005 |
Thanks so very much for weighing in here, Chris. You've given me some sound suggestions to make this better. I didn't know the origin of "bedlam" --used the term from a book title of Anne Sexton's "To Bedlam and Back," I believe. You are correct in thinking this is written about Roethke's mental imbalance. And I'm soooo happy to hear you like the closing stanza --I was most unsure of that particular part of the poem when I posted. You've been a big help!! I'll work on tightening this up. Thanks, Teresa | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 6433 Registered: 11-1998 |
Everyone got here before me, Teresa, and offered some excellent suggestions. Chris, in particular, pointed to the same things that I had reservations about. But they are small points in an otherwise stellar piece. You shine throughout this work. There is no way you could have written such an illuminating work unless you shared the same affliction. Thank you for being brave enough to face the demon and explain its effects. I truly admire your courage since I assume this was a difficult one to write honestly. The ending is superb! It brought me a smile, which was unexpected given the subject. Brava! Love, M | ||
| Teresa White
Intermediate Member Username: teresa_white Post Number: 501 Registered: 01-2005 |
Thank you, M, for your kind words. Writing this poem wasn't as hard as the decision to post and "expose" myself. The first draft didn't mention Roethke--but I felt more comfortable writing from his perspective--to add a little emotional distance. Thank you so much for saying the ending is superb. I just wasn't sure about that. My best, Teresa | ||
| Lazarus
Intermediate Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 903 Registered: 10-2005 |
Teresa- Wow! Wonderful poem. So well contained for the range in which you scatered it. I am fond of this image: I am feeling god-like, dance around the house, a big bear oblivious to missteps or an unbalanced calf. My father was (probably) bipolar, though they didn't know much about it then. My memories are sometimes hard to understand. This poem gives me some clues. Thanks for writing and for sharing. And the earth, bristling and raw, tiny and lost resumes its search; rushing through the vast astonishment- Ted Hughes, from His Legs Ran About. | ||
| Emusing
Moderator Username: emusing Post Number: 2565 Registered: 08-2003 |
Teresa, From someone who has a completely different take on the source of mental illness, I read this poem not as a subscriber to the label but as a tribute to the man who despite his abberations was able to flourish as poet and educator. I wonder if someone whose analytical powers are so greatly diminished could have the objective powers to write about it in such detal. Even Plath's work shows the insanity in the altered perception of life situations. I read this poem over in third person and it worked. Perhaps something to consider. Whatever you do, it’s fine work. Your end line is superb. Intelligent and ironic. My big applause! E | ||
| michael julius sottak
Advanced Member Username: julius Post Number: 2005 Registered: 12-2003 |
"what is madness but nobility of soul at odds with circumstance"-- T.Rothke. Well, done Teresa! ... I think modern medicine has labeled, if not created, some wonderful illnesses that have always been there..."bipolarity" for one.........but let me not get into medicinal/political/legal/monetary crapola that goes with labelling... I think if you look at most writers/poets you will find some trace of bipolarity, if not a magnificent predominance... it is this: the surface of water the dolphin below swimming for the sun bursting into light spinning diving back through that surface (of normality) for the cold depths, to refresh, before going back through that plane of fat vacationers at disney world sipping on frozen-concentrate libations conjured by a green-carded, bipolar, mexican with a delicious sense of humor... ha! Doestoyevski, Rothke, Puskin, London, Steinbeck, Hemingway, Dunleavy, Pope, Waugh, Colderigde... welcome, my Lady... to Kubla Khan! | ||
| Zephyr
Senior Member Username: zephyr Post Number: 3732 Registered: 07-2003 |
Well said Julius ... Blake Emily Dickenson, Hopkins, Keats, Shelley, Walt Whitman, Robert Burns, William Cowper, Tennyson, Ann Sexton, Eliot, Ezra Pound, Samuel Johnson, Poe, Dylan Thomas....and many more. Good company eh?  (Message edited by zephyr on January 24, 2006) | ||
| michael julius sottak
Advanced Member Username: julius Post Number: 2007 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hi, Z, Not MV...but so good to see you, darlin...  let not to the marriage of true minds admit impediments just j | ||
| Zephyr
Senior Member Username: zephyr Post Number: 3734 Registered: 07-2003 |
Ooops..sorry Julius...crossed wires.  | ||
| michael julius sottak
Advanced Member Username: julius Post Number: 2009 Registered: 12-2003 |
the vibration felt good | ||
| Morgan Lafay
Advanced Member Username: morganlafay Post Number: 1344 Registered: 08-2005 |
Echoing everyone Teresa. Just wonderful. Truly gifted ye are. | ||
| Teresa White
Intermediate Member Username: teresa_white Post Number: 505 Registered: 01-2005 |
Lazarus, thanks for commenting. Your father (as you suggest) may have been bipolar. With my experience, after onset at age 18, it wasn't until I was 37 that I finally got a correct diagnosis. Before that I was treated with drugs meant only for schizophrenics which only made me worse. It's still a difficult disorder to diagnose properly. E, yes, this is meant as a tribute to Roethke --I will try this in third person and see what happens. Thanks for the big applause for my ending!! Michael, love the Roethke quote! And the lovely poem beginning with "the surface of water"--is it one of yours? Zephyr, thanks for the list of famous bipolar writers! When it first came out, several years ago, I read Kaye Jamieson's landmark book "Creativity and Madness" where she delves into the lives of well-known poets/writers/artists with mental illness. To simplify matters, her conclusion was that bipolars are frequently poets/writers while schizophrenics tend to be artists. Fascinating read if you've never read it. Morgan, thank you for your generous comment! My best to each of you, Teresa | ||
| michael julius sottak
Advanced Member Username: julius Post Number: 2012 Registered: 12-2003 |
Miss T... thought you might appreciate that you are not alone... I dive through extremes constantly, though most observe me as pretty normal... I hold steady on to reality, yet dip and soar, yes the poem is mine... i think that is why we are all here | ||
| Teresa White
Intermediate Member Username: teresa_white Post Number: 506 Registered: 01-2005 |
Michael, Yes, indeed, it's good to know I'm not alone. Your poem is fantastic; thanks so much for posting it!! My best, Teresa | ||
| Karen L Monahan
Intermediate Member Username: klhmonahan Post Number: 662 Registered: 08-2004 |
Teresa, I just wanted to add my 2 nickels to the discussion. Ya know, I was there when they gave this depression a name. It all started with this bear that should have liked the cold, but he was queer about seasons, happy in the summer, sad in the winter. He also tended to like bears of his own gender. Just thought y'all would like to know. (((smile))) Karen | ||
| michael julius sottak
Advanced Member Username: julius Post Number: 2018 Registered: 12-2003 |
fantasy is a state of mind, Miss Theresa, this poem has been in the backlog, swimming around with the others, diving and leaping, the process I've recognized in other people that proclaim themselves writers, some of them recognized as such (mentioned above by Miss Z and myself...and some not)...but it is the swim, that makes it worthy, darlin...the destination is just an end.... | ||
| D B
New member Username: dddan Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2005 |
(Apologies to the mods, this reply is slightly off topic but I hope you will allow it!) Right, just to drag the telepathy point up again: I have been through manic depression. Fully. I still have a slight (well, I say slight, meaning confined to evenings) drinking problem, but outside of a drink or two, I now display none of the symptoms of manic, or even moderate depression. This, for starters, should be impossible. My practice of a Tai chi style standing meditation for a few months proved otherwise. The scientists are wrong, in other words. About the fact of if you can be cured of this illness (you can, and cure yourself realtively easily). My being cured coincided with an experience of telepathy that was life-changing. My belief now is that many people with mental illness experience an extension to their normal awareness that might be considered 'telepathic' if you choose to view it that way. Also thrown in with this awareness, during mental illness, is a load of other random shit we call 'paranoia' or 'delusion', which leads us retrospectively to doubt the original 'psychic ability'. The fact that you can re-access a lot of these intuitive, or psychic abilities through methods such as meditation that not only do not impinge sanity, but actually make you more sane and balanced, leads me to believe that the altered states of conscious insanity randomly induce are indeed the doorway to some form of extended awareness. And these are available to us all, sane or not. Basically! (Message edited by dddan on January 24, 2006) | ||
| LJ Cohen
Moderator Username: ljc Post Number: 3865 Registered: 07-2002 |
*ljc steps up to the mike. . . Just an FYI, this thread has spun away from poetry. If you want to continue the discussion, feel free to move it to 'esential oils', the general discussion forum. Thanks. ljc Once in a Blue Muse Blog | ||
| native dancer
Advanced Member Username: nativedancer Post Number: 318 Registered: 12-2004 |
teresa, like many a reader who will come upon this excellent poem, i am not bipolar and my own experience with these manic highs is fairly remote. but that's what poetry is for: to make another's world this immediate and forceful, and to bring us all a bit closer. of all your poems, i feel touched by this one perhaps the most. and one of the elements that makes it succeed so well is the adoption of a male persona, which lends a universality, i think, to a narrative that might not be quite as persuasive and touching if delivered in the manner of a personal journey. a very formidable accomplishment. | ||
| Teresa White
Intermediate Member Username: teresa_white Post Number: 512 Registered: 01-2005 |
Jim, I didn't expect another comment here in Creative Visualization after Lisa gently reminded us we were getting off topic and to move the thread to the discussion forum. But since you address the poem, let me say thank you for the kind words. Much appreciated. And thanks too to Karen and DB. My best, Teresa |
