| Author | Message | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1780 Registered: 11-2007 |
apparently (and somewhat sadly) the accepted way to get a first book published these days (without self publishing) is the First Book Poetry Contest. There are hundreds of them out there, with varying rules, guidelines, and results. Some of them have a very odd rule; you are not permitted to have had any kind of communication with the judge, been in a workshop or mentored by them, or in contact in any way. If you do, you will be disqualified. The odd part of this rule is, many contests do not announce the judge's name until after the contest closes, or only when the winner is announced. Does anyone see the catch in that rule? Afraid of the Dark | ||
| LJ Cohen
Moderator Username: ljc Post Number: 11308 Registered: 07-2002 |
With the cost for entering many of these contests $15-30 a shot, the odds against winning, and the small commercial audience for poetry books are some of the reasons why I put a collection together on my own. It ended up being far cheaper in the end then the entry fees and I figure the workshopping I've received here is the best editorial feedback I could get just about anywhere. Once in a Blue Muse Blog "Chop Wood, Carry Water" | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1781 Registered: 11-2007 |
well, it's the marketing that would be a catch for me, LJ. The catch in that First Book contest was, btw, if you dont know who the judge will be, how can you 'avoid all contact' or know if you have or havent had a workshop or mentoring experience with them in the past? I do find that entering one a year is far more enlightening for me, as to editing my own stuff, since every time I go over the submission I find changes, edits, things that I might slide over otherwise. At least it keeps my hand in, and it's far cheaper, for me, than the magazine route, which for me at this point is just numbing. How do you market self-published books? Afraid of the Dark | ||
| LJ Cohen
Moderator Username: ljc Post Number: 11312 Registered: 07-2002 |
Short answer--I don't. LOL. A few wilders bought copies, I have a link on my website and blog, but for the most part, I put the collection together as a gift for friends and family. Quite honestly, I get more readers seeing my poems just by posting at Wild than I ever would with a poetry manuscript. Once in a Blue Muse Blog "Chop Wood, Carry Water" | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1782 Registered: 11-2007 |
well thanks for the input, LJ Afraid of the Dark | ||
| LJ Cohen
Moderator Username: ljc Post Number: 11318 Registered: 07-2002 |
Judy--I don't mean to disparage publication or first book contests, so I'm sorry if I may have sounded so! Self publishing a poetry collection was a very personal decision. Partly arrived at when I understood that my work isn't the sort to win awards or capture a literary audience. I write the small poems of my life and random observations and it is likely that beyond a small audience of fellow wilders, friends, and family, doesn't have a wider or commercial appeal. I feel differently about my fiction and am committed to the traditional publication path for my novels. Best, ljc Once in a Blue Muse Blog "Chop Wood, Carry Water" | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1783 Registered: 11-2007 |
not a problem, lj.  Afraid of the Dark | ||
| Will Eastland
Advanced Member Username: dwillo Post Number: 1094 Registered: 07-2006 |
Judy, do you have contacts with that many poet judge types that the chances are good? If not, and you have a quality manuscript put together and want to see where it stands, I'd say pay the $$ and send it out. Alot of times you'll get a free chapbook out of it. (btw, a chapbook contest is where I'd recommend anyone who hasn't published a collection start. But that's me) Shortly after getting seriously back into writing I paid $15 and sent 5 (woefully underqualified) poems into a reputable contest. I got my rejection notification nearly a year later. A little over a year later I got the issue with the winning poems and the judge's (Thomas Lux) commentary. It was fascinating and instructive to hear why he appreciated the winning work, to read that work, then compare their technique and execucution to mine. A valuable part of any writer's growth in my opinion. Also, as to your question-- over the years there have been serious allegations over various judges' relationships (teaching, marital, palsy walsy, etc) with winning contestants. I would say that a contest with pertinent exclusions is a solid one. Best of luck, Will Progress is a comfortable disease. ~e e cummings | ||
| M
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 35310 Registered: 11-1998 |
I'm in agreement with Will here on all the points he made, Judy. As to your question, yes, it is a Catch-22. I suppose you can either avoid the contests that do not release the judge's name and have this particular restriction, or go ahead and enter and worry about the details later if the chapbook is chosen. Have you been mentored by many? Whether you have or haven't, I think the odds are pretty much with you that the particular judge for a particular chapbook contest will be someone with whom you have no personal relationship. To run into someone you know that well is pretty unlikely. Love, M | ||
| Andrew Dufresne
Senior Member Username: beachdreamer Post Number: 2957 Registered: 01-2006 |
I self publish and I do OK. I place my books at laundromats, coffee shops and thrift stores. Like a coy southern belle from ancient Greece, I casually drop them like hankies in front of prospective beaus and beau-ettes. I have won the Noble Prise and the Boogerheim. All sorts o' stuff. But I have yet to crack the ficking New Yorker, so I wake up screaming. ad Out of the quarrel with others, we make rhetoric; out of the quarrel with ourselves poetry.--Yeats | ||
| Bill Winter
New member Username: wpw Post Number: 9 Registered: 09-2009 |
Hi, Judy. This article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2005/jul/04/news.comment) explains the history behind the exclusion rules, though of course it doesn't help with knowing when to exclude oneself when the judges aren't named. I think Will's suggestion of starting with a chapbook competition is a good one--one of the competitions here picks three selections to be printed and will consider all submitted poems, whether winners or not, for publication in their annual journal. The people I know who self-publish books mainly sell copies when they do readings (and we're talking maybe three to ten copies, not a lot). | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1784 Registered: 11-2007 |
I thank you for the comments, although this wasnt what I had aimed for by starting the topic, but wherever a topic wants to go, like an ox team heading home, you do just as well to let it go there. Afraid of the Dark | ||
| Ron. Lavalette
Advanced Member Username: dellfarmer Post Number: 1952 Registered: 05-2007 |
Ack! Don't let that big ox come in here w/o wiping its feet! Ye Gods! --Ron. Eggs Over Tokyo | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1785 Registered: 11-2007 |
my oxen have very clean feet. trust me. besides which, if they want to use the front door, or the plate glass winda, why, I'd just step out of the way and let them through... Afraid of the Dark | ||
| Lazarus
Senior Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 5690 Registered: 10-2005 |
I've been thinking about entering a few of these myself Judy so I'm glad to hear that you don't regret doing it once in a while. I think the general benefits are that it would make you come up with finals, if it gets picked it's a good credit, and it makes you think in terms of books and continuity of message which I think is all important to voice. I don't have any opinion about the judge. As long as none of you are judging I don't think I'll have run into them. -Laz | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1786 Registered: 11-2007 |
what it does, Laz, is force me to organize, to edit right down to the punctuation, and to clean up all those fiddly bits that it's too easy to just let slide. I think the work I've selected is better for the effort put into editing, and when you figure the cost of the contest itself, which is $20 to enter, that can get eaten up very quickly by postage to and from offline magazines, some of which simply lose your work or never reply--or if they do it's months later, sometimes a year or more. And yes, you begin to see a pattern to what you pick, to what you write, and how one poem can flow into the next or stand alone. I prefer a preannounced judge, I think, if only because we tend to like the styles we write in, and I think even the best poets have that underlying bias. (not a biggie, here, but it's in the back of my mind like a low hum *g*) A few years ago I was talking with the editor of an ezine, who said she had been involved in a workshop with Billy Collins. she said, in her wonderful southern drawl, "every poem he workshoppped turned into a Billy Collins poem, by the time he was done..." The only advantage I can see to a first book contest is that you have a much more level playing field, as to competition. And having done the submission route for um number of years, it's obvious that one-at-a-time submissions to magazines is not the way to go, at least for me. Mail it, forget about the entire process until the little postcard says they got your stuff, and then forget about it again until the contest ends. My only regret is that there is no one handy that I could show the proposed entry to, so they could say, "I like this, but maybe this poem should go HERE, between page 23 and 24...? This would make a great ending poem..." Afraid of the Dark | ||
| Lazarus
Senior Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 5691 Registered: 10-2005 |
Judy- I figure that the publisher will have staff that do that sort of thing in the final edit, so the judge is looking at the work's potential, right, not a final perfect manuscript? That was a good cautionary tale about the workshop process too. Why it's great to get varied feedback. I figure if I get people on either side of some fence the work may have potential. -Laz | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1788 Registered: 11-2007 |
In a contest, my feeling is, get it as close to right the first time. In the contest I have my eye on this year it says, quite clearly, "the winner will have an opportunity to make edits or changes to his work after the contest is closed..." In a way I feel it's like applying for a job--you don't slouch in as if you just got up out of bed, hair messy, jangly bracelets clanking, way too much makeup and perfume and a huge grease spot on your bluejeans, even though the job you're applying for is receptionist in a nice office; I wouldnt hire me, and I wouldn't expect a prospective employer to assume i'll look better on my first day of work, either. And as you know, a misplaced comma or period or none at all can change the meaning of a word, a line, or a poem entirely. and if you intended a comma THERE, you by golly want it there in the final draft. a good editor won't change it, unless he asks. A 250 page manuscript will have typos, no matter how many times you go over it, and that's to be expected. But when you're dealing with very short poems, a badly spelled word is obvious, and looks lazy, as if someone didn't really care all that much. And if we don't, why should a judge?  Afraid of the Dark | ||
| Will Eastland
Advanced Member Username: dwillo Post Number: 1095 Registered: 07-2006 |
250 pages? Is your first book going to be The Collected Poems of . . .?  Progress is a comfortable disease. ~e e cummings | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1789 Registered: 11-2007 |
no no no. I meant a novel-type book. (it was an example, not meant to scare. sorry) oh my god the thoughts of 250 pages...(thud) Afraid of the Dark |
