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Tori Bednar
New member
Username: deadly_love

Post Number: 27
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 3:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Let me start by saying that I am a diehard classic poetry fan. I like poems with a meter, a certain cadence that allows the words to flow smoothly through the mind. Rhyme isn't a must, but it definitely adds to the enjoyment I get from reading these types of poems.

Now for the real purpose of this post. Recently in English we have started learning and reading about more modern poets. Think e. e. cummings and such. I'm finding that I don't dislike it as much as I used to, and I am especially drawn to the themes that Modernism emphasizes (loss of god, dwindling individuality, a sense of alienation from the world, failure of communication, ect.) What I really am curious (and aprehensive) to try is the experimentation with form that is quintessintial to Modernistic poetry.

I realize that the way a person breaks up the lines and creates a new message within the original by doing so is a very individual process, but I was curious if I could get some tips or starting points on how to get to that place. Any advice on how to leave my beloved meter, rhyme and cadence behind would be greatly appreciated. Also, please recommend any Modern poets/poetry that you enjoy and that might help me to discover a new tye of poetry and feeling within myself.

Thanks.


(Message edited by Deadly_Love on January 20, 2009)
Jeffrey S. Lange
Advanced Member
Username: runatyr

Post Number: 1148
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 4:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Hi Tori,

Intriguing post! I believe, and I am sure I will be corrected if I am not correct, that contemporary poetry is separated from what we call "Modernism", which is generally seen as the poetry of the first half of the 20th century, ushered in by such luminaries as T.S. Eliot. Some time in the 50's poetry took on a new cast, and the Beat era came storming onto the scene in the U.S.

Today's contemporary poetry is in an as-yet-not-categorized phase currently referred to as "Post-Modernism"... it may hold onto that moniker or it may be changed depending on the way future generations view the work of this era, one supposes.

It is, however, certainly a period of experimentation of form, as you point out. The terminology is semantics, but thought I'd mention it.

I think the best tip regarding your beloved meter, rhyme, and cadence is to remember NOT to leave it behind... by which I mean that it is important to remember that we still see all of those aspects of traditional poetry applied to contemporary poetry; they are simply applied in different ways. Meter is often irregular, but it is still a meter the poet is aware of. Rhyme is generally not end-rhyme, but a contemporary poem is often peppered with internal rhyme and slant rhymes. And cadence can still help you figure out where to end a line... perhaps even more so in contemporary poetry than in form poetry, where line breaks are pre-determined by the form.

Generally, end lines on strong words -- not conjunctions or articles. And complete an image or a thought before breaking, unless you are specifically going for fragmentation with a purpose in mind.

But most of all, play around and don't worry too much about how to do it. It is an age of experimentation, after all. And while I love traditional poetry and still believe it has immense value for any poet, I also love contemporary poetry, and I write as a contemporary poet. It is the poetry that speaks in the language of my day and age.

Have fun, and I'll look forward to seeing what bubbles up!

Jeff
Tori Bednar
New member
Username: deadly_love

Post Number: 28
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 4:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thanks Jeff, your advice is actually quite reassuring. So far, the only example of contemporary poetry is a small collection by e. e. cummings that we have been studying in class. Hence my worries about the rhyme, meter, and cadence. The advice on how to end, especially, will be a huge help.

Tori
Patricia A. Marsh
Member
Username: patricia

Post Number: 92
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 5:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post


quote:

So far, the only example of contemporary poetry is a small collection by e. e. cummings that we have been studying in class. Hence my worries about the rhyme, meter, and cadence.




Why worry, Tori?! Today, e e cummings' poetry is historical rather than contemporary. However, what you'll learn from studying more than a small collection of cummings' poetry, is that he mastered meter and rhyme before he began experimenting.

Also: FWIW, you can find a list of the twenty most popular contemporary poets at the following URL:

. . . . . http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/58


All best!
Fred Longworth
Senior Member
Username: sandiegopoet

Post Number: 5350
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 5:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Tory,

I can say this without reservation: I have never truly enjoyed reading a poem by e.e. cummings, whose cleverness (IMHO) enormously outweighs the depth/insight/profundity of his writing. I have also felt that using cummings as the high-school and college "gateway poet" to modern and/or post-modern poetry does a terrible disservice to the huge and wonderful body of what I call "contemporary poetry."

Here are a few poets who I think you would strongly benefit from reading:

(1) Sharon Olds
(2) Philip Levine
(3) Billy Collins
(4) Kim Addonizio
(5) Denise Duhamel
(6) Mary Oliver
(7) Thomas Lux
(8) Robert Bly
(9) Sylvia Plath (deceased)
(10) Pablo Neruda (deceased)

Best,

Fred
From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans."
Jeffrey S. Lange
Advanced Member
Username: runatyr

Post Number: 1152
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 6:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Great lists of poets from the both of ye. Simic, Oliver, Plath, and Neruda are my favorites from the two lists. Especially Simic.

Reading Robert Hass now, as I mentioned on another thread. Absorbed. I recommend him as well.
~M~
Board Administrator
Username: mjm

Post Number: 32960
Registered: 11-1998
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 7:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I would second Freddie's list, Tori, and most likely throw quite a few others on it as well (too many to list here). Two web sites I highly recommend for information on modern/contemporary poets are:

Poetry Foundation

Poets.org

I hope they prove useful in your studies.

Best,
M
Tori Ann
New member
Username: deadly_love

Post Number: 29
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 7:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thanks so much,the poets and sources you all provided are quite enriching. And I have to agree with you Fred, I find some of e.e. cummings work to lack depth. It's more like a puzzle in which the only purpose is to find the sentence. I'll make sure to delve into the works of the poets you all recommended, and hopefully post a few of my own soon.

Tori
Gary Blankenship
Moderator
Username: garydawg

Post Number: 26995
Registered: 07-2001
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 8:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Williams Carlos Williams
HD
Bill Strafford
Roethke
and although hardly modern - Walt Whitman.

Good luck.

Smiles.

Gary
Celebrate Walt with Gary:
http://www.poetrykit.org/pkl/tw10/tw4conte.htm


Dan Tompsett
Valued Member
Username: db_tompsett

Post Number: 270
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 10:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Great reading selections above. Dylan Thomas is a favorite of mine, and a lot of his stuff rhymes. If you read some Dylan Thomas be sure to listen to the great sound of his work. Here's one he wrote about writing poetry:

In My Craft or Sullen Art

In my craft or sullen art
Exercised in the still night
When only the moon rages
And the lovers lie abed
With all their griefs in their arms
I labour by singing light
Not for ambition or bread
Or the strut and trade of charms
On the ivory stages
But for the common wages
Of their most secret heart.

Not for the proud man apart
From the raging moon I write
On these spindrift pages
Nor for the towering dead
With their nightingales and psalms
But for the lovers, their arms
Round the griefs of the ages,
Who pay no praise or wages
Nor heed my craft or art.

Dylan Thomas
"People who believe a lot of crap are better off." Charles Bukowski
Fred Longworth
Senior Member
Username: sandiegopoet

Post Number: 5352
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 10:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I need to say this before Ron shows up.

Kooser is god.

Fred
From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans."
Ron. Lavalette
Advanced Member
Username: dellfarmer

Post Number: 1412
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 2:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Thank you Mr Longworth. I was getting there.

Tori: Lawrence Ferlinghetti--esp earlier works, like A Coney Island Of The Mind
--Ron.
Eggs Over Tokyo
Kathy Paupore
Moderator
Username: kathy

Post Number: 10727
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I'll add:

Jane Kenyon
Gregory Orr
Louise Gluck
Dorrianne Laux

LiPo
Wang Wei

Kathy
You're invited to:

Wild Flowers

Poetry is a way of taking life by the throat.~Robert Frost

Andrew Dufresne
Advanced Member
Username: beachdreamer

Post Number: 2012
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

I would add:

Frederick Seidel
Robert Creeley
Elizabeth Bishop
Robert Lowell
Gregory Corso
Galway Kinnell
Philip Larkin
Denise Levertov

as long as we're making lists.

ad
Will Eastland
Intermediate Member
Username: dwillo

Post Number: 911
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 10:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

Or get your hands on and read as many anthologies printed from 1960 onward. You will get a heavy dose of all of the above and much, much more.

Though I would add Hayden Carruth to any of those lists. . .

Walk carefully--
your shoe is what you shine your shadow with.


~Jessica Goodfellow
Tori Ann
New member
Username: deadly_love

Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 7:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post

So many poets! All of them helpful so far too. Especially LiPo, Kathy, his work is enthralling. With all of the reading I've been doing, Poe and Shakespeare are drifting to the back of my mind. It's refreshing to read contemporary works. I feel inspired all over again. (and that's a wonderful thing) The websites you suggested, M, are now bookmarked in my favorites for future referencing, they've already been a huge help.