| Author | Message | ||
| Susan Chen
New member Username: susan_l_chen Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2008 |
Do other members have blogs solely for poetry? if you do, let's share!  http://voxmentis.wordpress.com any comments most welcome!  SUSAN CHEN Stanford University "A bit of fragrance clings to the hand that gives flowers." -Chinese Proverb | ||
| Ron. Lavalette
Advanced Member Username: dellfarmer Post Number: 1373 Registered: 05-2007 |
Welcome, Susan. When I'm lucky enough to have something published, I post it at Eggs Over Tokyo. Many of our members have blogs, most of those have much poetry posted. You can usually find these by checking the member's profile (ie clicking on his/her name). Again, welcome. --Ron. Eggs Over Tokyo | ||
| Kathy Paupore
Moderator Username: kathy Post Number: 10569 Registered: 12-2003 |
Susan, My blog is below, but I haven't updated it in ages. Kathy You're invited to: Wild Flowers Free verse in not, of course, free.--Mary Oliver | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5254 Registered: 05-2006 |
I have been concerned about the connection between posting a poem on a blog and having it published online or in a hardcopy journal. My belief is that it's wise (and considerate) not to post a poem on a blog so as to complete with the online or hardcopy publication. It's easy to see that a poem should not be posted on a blog at the same time it's published, but how long a boundary should a poet accord before and after? Say I've had my poem on my blog for six months, and then it gets published in Iowa Review, and I immediately take it down. Have I detracted from the journal's exclusivity of access? Is it okay for me to repost it on my blog only a month after the issue of Iowa Review hits bookstores and mailboxes? In short, what width of time window of non-competition should a poet extend to a journal before and after publication? I have heard a few poets argue: NONE. I disagree with this. If all the poems can be read on the poets' blogs, why should a reader go out and buy, or subscribe to, the journal? Fred From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32820 Registered: 11-1998 |
Perhaps this small discussion by Robert Lee Brewer on Poetic Asides can bring a bit of clarity about "previously published" as it concerns blogs. And I will add to what Brewer says that each magazine/journal has its own "rules" concerning this. What applies to the Iowa Review may not apply to The Cranky Elbow. There is no one blanket policy that applies to every journal/magazine. If the "rules" are not detailed on the submissions page, a brief question addressed to the editor can usually clear up their policies: Poetry FAQs: When is something considered published? Posted by Robert Brewer Okay, this question has been coming up a lot recently in the comments section of this blog: What counts as previously published? And, in relation to this blog, does posting a poem in the comments of this blog mean it's "published"? Before I begin, I think it would be beneficial for you to read this post from former co-blogger and Poet's Market editor Nancy Breen about the whole publishing question in "Published is Published!" For Individual Poems Many editors consider anything published anywhere at any time under any circumstances as published. This can even include public readings. And if a publication specifies what they consider published in their guidelines, it would behoove a poet (or any writer really) to respect the editor's considerations. With such editors, a poem posted anywhere counts as publication, whether it's posted in a public forum or blog, or even a private, password-protected location online. In such cases, poems posted on this blog would be considered "previously published." However, there are editors who take a slightly different view. Some editors consider a poem unpublished if it only displays on a personal blog and/or is in a "draft" form in a forum or blog. That is, if your poem on Poetic Asides is only a rough draft and not the final version, it would not be considered "previously published." If editors do not specify what they consider previously published, there's a good chance they fall into this camp. For Poetry Collections Except for rare cases, most editors/publishers of poetry collections accept previously published poems as long as the collection itself has not been previously published. Actually, the fact that poems are previously published usually helps in getting the collection published. That said, do NOT try to use poems posted on a personal blog or public forum as a publishing credit. Such credits hold little weight, since there is usually no screening process, because eveyone can get published. My main point here is that individual poems that are considered published by journals can still be considered unpublished as components of a poetry collection. And that even individual poems that are considered published are welcome in "original" collections of poems. In fact, "new collections" can be made from selecting poems from previous full-length collections and chapbooks. So, How Should Poets Proceed? Armed with your knowledge of what is and is not considered published, you've just got to pick your battles and act accordingly. For instance, most of my poems are not published on my blog, because I want to have as many publishing options available to me as possible. I share drafts of these "unpublished" poems with close poet friends to solicit feedback for revisions. The poems I post as parts of prompts, I consider "published," though I would not use it as a publishing credit if I tried including any of them in a collection, because I also consider my poems on this blog to be "vanity publication credits." I make an informed decision to write a poem a week just for the act of creation. Considering how much money most published poets make anyway, I don't view this as such a bad decision. But every poet has to make this decision on their own. . | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32821 Registered: 11-1998 |
Oh, and as to the question of how long a period of time must you wait AFTER publication? If the magazine has "purchased" first American serial rights, it is usually customary to wait until the issue in which the work is available for viewing has been superceded by the next issue. In other words, the poet is free to post it on his blog as soon as December, for instance, if the poem appeared in the November issue and the November issue has been put to bed (and if the publication is a monthly journal). Though some poets wait longer out of courtesy to the original publisher. After about two-three months, I would say you are well within your rights to display it elsewhere and are finished with any obligations owed to the original publisher. Under these rights, the author has merely "sold" the right to display the poem for one issue or agreed upon length of time. After that, rights revert to the author. The author is then free to use the poem in any way he wishes -- on a blog, in a published collection, in another mazagine (should that magazine accept previously published work), etc. And it is normally customary/good etiquette to identify the first mag as the original publisher whenever and wherever that poem subsequently appears, i.e., with a note that says something like: "Bing, Bang, Boom" was first featured in the November 2008 issue of The Cranky Elbow" after the poem. However, this last issue (crediting the original/first publisher) is more a matter of good social graces, and is almost never tracked or legally enforced. Love, M | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5255 Registered: 05-2006 |
Thanks for this information, ~M~. Obviously, the margin after publication far easier to deal with than the margin before publication. When Trivia and Nothings publishes my poem, I know when their current issue begins and when the next issue begins. If the journal is quarterly and the Winter issue comes out Jan 1, I know that I'm probably free to post my poem elsewhere anytime after April 1. But before publication is different. I've had journals -- especially internet pubs -- accept my poem only a few days before the new issue was to go online. So, if my poem is on my blog, and I agree (or elect) to take it down so not to compete, the history of the poem online may read like this -- On Fred's blog February 8 - March 21 Available at Trivia and Nothings April 1 - June 30 On Fred's blog once again July 1 - to whenever Now if I am a comparative nobody with a blog that is visited primarily by my friends in the poetry scene and by members of TPF (Tame Poetry Forum), then the appearance of my poem on my blog just prior to publication in Trivia and Nothings means little. Only a tiny fraction of the greater poetry community will have seen my poem prior to its appearance in T and N. But, say I've just received a major contest award from The Spoon River Poetry Review or from Many Mountains Moving, and maybe fifty thousand poets have at least glanced at the writeup in Poets & Writers. If they are like me, and have just noticed a poet they consider "worth a further look," they may Google me, and find my blog. So perhaps a few thousand serious poetry enthusiasts may have encountered my poem on my blog just prior to its publication in T & N. Unfortunately, T & N is hoping that their journal will be read by the greater community of poets, rather than my casual, occasional readers of poetry. So my blog has "sullied" my poem vis-a-vis exactly the audience that the journal targets. So, perhaps, at least on a speculative basis, we might formulate the following rule: The more prominent you are as a poet, the more likely that your blog will be read, and as a result the more likely it will be that your poem -- if posted on your blog prior to publication -- will have been seen by that publication's preferred audience prior to its official appearance in that same publication. Fred From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32822 Registered: 11-1998 |
Notoriety of the poet aside, Freddie, if the journal, be it The Spoon River Poetry Review or the more infamous Many Mountains Moving or even the little T & N, has stated outright that they don't count poems displayed on blogs as "published," and they're willing to entertain them, then what's the issue? In other words, if the journal itself isn't worried about the appearance of your poem on your blog prior to their acceptance of it, then why are you worried? Any mag that accepts poems that have been posted on blogs has obviously considered this exposure dilemma, and equally obviously is not as worried about this prior exposure as you are. Why? I would guess it's because they don't see blogs as any major competition. Therefore, I'd say as it pertains to your speculatively formulated rule, that's all well and good, dear Freddie. But you should worry about protecting your own interests and let the mags worry about protecting theirs. If prior exposure bothers them, believe me -- they'll disallow it and write their rules accordingly. They're big boys. They know what they're doing.  Love, M | ||
| Jeffrey S. Lange
Advanced Member Username: runatyr Post Number: 1136 Registered: 10-2005 |
And big girls, M. And big girls. | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5256 Registered: 05-2006 |
~M~, I am really unconcerned about the issue of "prior publication," especially as it concerns my own work, though it might seem so from the dialog. As you may know from my prior remarks in this area, my studies of economics reveal that we are in a post-industrial, post-manufacturing era in the United States. There is no going back. We are not going to reacquire our blue-collar manufacturing base from China. This means that only three areas remain for the United States to continue to enjoy economic prosperity: (1) agriculture; (2) finance; (3) intellectual property. * * * * * Though currently the US is the #1 agricultural producer in the world, advances in agricultural technology in second- and third-world countries will likely erode our dominance in this area in coming decades. Already, as the current financial crisis implies, we are losing our grip as the dominant financial mover and shaker in the world economy. The growth of the Chinese economy will in coming decades likely displace us as the #1 player. This leaves intellectual property as the one area where the US can continue to enjoy what economists call a comparative advantage. * * * * * Since the future prosperity of the US depends strongly on our ability to generate, and economically profit from, intellectual property, I am extremely concerned about the attitudes of the general public toward intellectual property: toward patents, toward research, toward copyrights. * * * * * I see around me a general lack of concern about the value of intellectual property and the means whereby this property can be developed and sustained. People think nothing about bootlegging a computer program. People feel that corporations that hold patents are "ripping off" the public. People feel it's okay to copy music and the written word without royalty or other compensation. * * * * * So, I approach the matter of according a poetry magazine a time-window of exclusivity of access to a poem or story, not from the point of view of protecting my poems or stories, but from the point of view of engendering a general respect for intellectual property among the broader community of citizens. And no . . . I do not believe that most poetry zine editors are highly trained in economics. So, I suspect that a great many of them, along with a great many poets, may act in ways that ignore the operative, underlying economic considerations explicated above. It is in this spirit that I introduce these matters. I don't have a blog. I am not concerned about my own stuff. These matters are far more important than Fred. Fred From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32823 Registered: 11-1998 |
Yep, Jeffrey, big girls too!  Freddie, you're a pip. I think no matter what the topic of discussion was, you'd drag out this economic post-industrial, post-manufacturing era in the United States discussion of yours and somehow tie it to engendering a general respect for intellectual property among the broader community of citizens. I'm not saying I don't respect your concerns, Freddie, but economically speaking, poetry ain't even on the radar. You're probably right -- most poetry zine editors are not highly trained in economics. They don't have to be. You wanna know why? Zero minus zero is zero. Zero plus zero is zero. That's about all you need to know. There's no money in poetry. If you wanna yell about something, how about yelling about that? *LOL* You'd actually have to make money at it before you'd need to worry about protecting it. Love, M | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5257 Registered: 05-2006 |
~M~, In my career I've made close to $250 in hard cold cash as a poetry mogul. As you know, in Boggleslovia this would support a family of 13 for 11 years, including daily doses of Radu, an indigenous plant the narcotic oils from which are the only way a poor Boggleslovanian citizen can stand to be alive. So, your assertion there's no money in poetry, seen in the relativistic terms that characterize much of modern life, has about as much merit as claiming that the sky is blue, ice is cold, or that most women in 1970 wanted to have Carly Simon's lips. Fred From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32824 Registered: 11-1998 |
Dearest Freddie -- Your vast fortune as a poetry mogul makes me look like a real piker. I have made a total of $50 (I had to use a calculator to add all that up), $25 of which I donated back to the journal that awarded it, because quite frankly, they needed it more than I did. steve and I are currently trying to organize the OSPA Spring 2009 Conference on a budget that would make a shoestring look like an obese Boggleslovian. We've got to put 100 butts in the seats just to cover our costs. The reason this is worrisome is because in the entire OSPA 52-year history, I believe they've only ever managed to get a high of 65 butts in the seats (and nearly always come out in the red). If you would like to do something positive, literally rather than theoretically, in regard to adding a bit of economics to poetry (with the nice little side benefit of proving my unmeritorious statement incorrect, at least as it concerns one little area of this big ol' poetry industry), you can go from poetry mogul to poetry benefactor by donating some of that cold hard cash to our cause. And/or convincing your poetry mogul friends (who've had equally illustrious and financially rewarding poetic careers) to do the same. steve and I would like to blow the doors off this year's conference, as well as prove that putting us in charge wasn't such a bad idea. Anyone who would like to contribute to that goal would be honored with much praise, personal satisfaction, a seat in heaven when it's all over, not to mention much butt-kissing on our part. Love, M | ||
| Dan Tompsett
Valued Member Username: db_tompsett Post Number: 215 Registered: 07-2007 |
The president-elect reads, writes, and enjoys poetry. A poem will be written for and read at his inauguration. Blago recited a bit of Tennyson in his defense due to his impeachment. I have noticed poetry in the news quite a bit over the past few months. A new book of Allan Ginsberg letters is coming out. Maybe something economically advantageous to poetry and poets is in the making? | ||
| S. Thomas Summers
Advanced Member Username: s_thomas_summers Post Number: 1388 Registered: 10-2006 |
I blog about poetry/lit. related topics. Please all stop by. I am lonely. www.freewebs.com/sthomassummers Look for the link to my blog. visit me at http://www.freewebs.com/sthomassummers/ author of "Death settled well" and "Rather, It Should Shine" | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5374 Registered: 05-2006 |
How can you be lonely, Scott. You're too busy collating all those acceptance letters from important journals. Fred From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." |
