| Author | Message | ||
| Kathy Paupore
Moderator Username: kathy Post Number: 10306 Registered: 12-2003 |
Poetry.com Scam (as cut and pasted from the internet) Poetry.com is a fraud publishing organization that features it's online writing contest. It literally accepts 100% of applicants as 'Semi-finalists' in their 'international poetry competition' and sends a letter to the poor victims. The letter is full of flattery saying that you are a wonderful poet and the 'sectional committee' or 'panel of judges' has decided your poetry is good enough to be published. They ask a 'modest' payment of $50 plus extra if you want your page on a page of it's own. Publishing only those who paid, 6000 poems per book at $50-$75 a poem with 60 books published a year is a lot of $$$$. Flattered writers are quick to give them money and order a few copies of the book they were featured in. After some time a message saying their poetry was good enough to be read on a cd then asking you to go to some expensive winning writers convention and getting a silver cup comes in. It's all to leach more money from the ones that haven't found out they've been scammed. They were even featured on ABC's 20/20. You can read about that in this link HERE from windpub.com (see moreinfo page). They have been scamming people since 1996 and continue to do so! It's disgusting because the state they're in LETS the continue to operate, despite all the complaints. If you need more evidence just search "poetry.com Scam" on google search. --Misconceptions-- Poetry.com does NOT publish your work if you do not pay for the book. Poetry.com publishes 50+ books a year and does NOT sell them anywhere other than to the victims of their scam. --Don't believe me?-- Have some fun and enter the contest. Write a crude poem about jibberish. Words like poetry.com, "dot com", sucks, etc will cause you not to get the letter. If you already used your address in the last couple of months use a friends address. You can also add a DR or ST to indicate drive or street and it may catch it as a different address in the database. and here's a link to more: windpub link, poetry scams Kathy You're invited to: Wild Flowers Free verse in not, of course, free.--Mary Oliver | ||
| LJ Cohen
Moderator Username: ljc Post Number: 10588 Registered: 07-2002 |
Be careful out there, poets! Once in a Blue Muse Blog LJCohen | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Moderator Username: garydawg Post Number: 26350 Registered: 07-2001 |
Besides being full of good information/lists...P and E probably has the best scam info on the web. http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/ Smiles. Gary Celebrate Walt with Gary: http://www.poetrykit.org/pkl/tw10/tw4conte.htm | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32561 Registered: 11-1998 |
Thanks for this, Kathy. Of particular interest to me, as an administrator of a writing website, was this review, about poets.com: "http://poets.com/ That is the address of the latest poetry scam. Here is their overview: The Poets’ Workshop is a community of serious poets aspiring to improve their craft by making their work available to review and critique by other poetic artists. Because of its tremendous popularity, The Poets’ Workshop has now become the largest poetic forum ever assembled, with thousands of members actively publishing and critiquing poetic works every hour of every day. Those who actually register, and there are plenty, must pay: Monthly--$5.95 per month Quarterly--$15.00 per quarter Yearly-- $45.00 per year What you pay for: Comments such as, “Wow, very telling poem. This was amazing.” Or, “I love this poem, it is so true.” Or, “You have developed a very special poem.” Who reviews your poem: People with personal statements such as, “the depth from which my poetry portrays is only as deep as the person who reads it. every poem i write means something different to everyone who reads it, i hope you enjoy my work as much as i enjoy writing it.” Or, “I am just re-discovering how much FUN poetry can be .. thanks to the person on this site who dubbed me "Poet Prince" .. I think I'll adopt that!!! I have lived a life full of experiences - good and bad, and I find that poetry is sometimes the only way of expressing what is in my heart. I love to share from my deepest feelings, and never cease to be amazed at how others' insights can touch me .. and mine likewise. We are all on this amazing journey together.” Why poets.com is a scam: Right now you’re at the PFFA, which is just one of many online poetry workshops that are free and offer you the chance to actually improve as a writer. All poets.com wishes to accomplish is to make money. Besides that, however, poets.com is a branch of poetry.com, the king of all scams (http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showthread.php?threadid=16722&poems)." They charge $45 a year for membership? And people actually pay this? Good Lord'a'Mighty! I find the idea of taking money from unsuspecting people for worthless crits (particularly the kind noted by the author of this review) and so-called writing assistance abhorrent and disgusting. Honestly, these people should be locked up. Love, M | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5125 Registered: 05-2006 |
I agree wholeheartedly that these scams are to be avoided! However, one quibble. In my eight or nine years of experience with on-line poetry critique sites, I have found PFFA (Poetry Free For All) to be absolutely the worst site. If (thinking of my smartassian side) you ever thought I was an arrogant, sarcastic SOB, then let me warn you about the PFFA. There reside a nasty, rude, cruel, vicious, vitriolic and venomous group of mods and regulars . . . who make me look, by comparison, like a gentle lamb.  * * * * * Were I a scambammer, of poems I truly love I might say -- "When Plato conceived of his 'cave,' little did he know that two-and-a-half millennia later the richest and most engaging of the shadows on the cave wall would turn out to be your poems. It's as if they have always existed in the realm of the ideal, waiting for a poet of your superb talent to wrest them from their niches in the realm of timelessness, and make them real." * * * * * Fred * * * * * From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32564 Registered: 11-1998 |
Yeah, I'm in agreement with you on PFFA, Freddie. I didn't post this as an advertisement of their site. I only posted it because in this case, they've pointed to something critically important and they happen to be correct in their review. Sometimes even the nasty, rude, cruel, vicious, vitriolic and venomous get something right. It's the message that's important here, not the messenger. Love, M | ||
| David C.
Intermediate Member Username: david_shay_mish Post Number: 872 Registered: 07-2007 |
I wholeheartedly second Fred's condemnation of PFFA. Such a puffed up ball of deluded mediocrity. Don't go there. No, really, don't go there. Hey, the Smartassians! Weren't they the bad guys in Star Trek IV? (Oops. Sorry M, I know I've gone a bit off-message. I just couldn't help myself.) (Message edited by david_shay_mish on December 20, 2008) | ||
| Patricia A. Marsh
Member Username: patricia Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2007 |
If you don't believe Kathy, do as she says and enter a poetry.com contest . . . then, when you're a winner, think about sorta recycling your poetry.com winning entry by sending it to the Wergle Flomp Free Poetry Contest: http://www.winningwriters.com/contestflomp.htm | ||
| Bren
Moderator Username: bren Post Number: 1614 Registered: 12-2001 |
When I started coming online I fell for this place, I may still have a poem up somewhere in there. Probably tacked in the outhouse where someone can use it for toilet tissue to write to Publisher Clearing House and ask why their prize hasn't arrived. Bren | ||
| "A-Bear"
Senior Member Username: dane Post Number: 2330 Registered: 11-1998 |
You have therefore been approved for a lump sum pay out of $2,200,000.00 in cash I WON - I WON - I WON - I was notified today that I am one of the luckywinners of the Soccer World Cup Draws held by the Confederation of Africa Football (CAF)/South African Football Association (SAFA) to promote the first ever soccer world cup in Africa. I can finally afford one of those poetry.com anthologies that published "several" of my earlier writings. Ain't life grand. I WON - I WON - I WON (smiles). D | ||
| AsaSakae
New member Username: asasakae Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2008 |
Agree with all said here. However, once upon a time and long ago - when this site first opened, an amazing gathering of some truly talented poets occurred. I was one of the members there (not that I consider myself one of the truly talented). We all knew it was a scam and did not partake in the "prize" game ... we just gathered and shared. For reasons unknown - the whole design changed to something many of us could not tolerate, and so we left - never again to find a truly comfortable gathering place. Until now. And a few of us now gather at the Wild. Excellent workshop this one - standing head and shoulders above the rest. (Message edited by AsaSakae on December 21, 2008) | ||
| W.F. Roby
Intermediate Member Username: wfroby Post Number: 545 Registered: 03-2008 |
I got badly burned at PFFA. Required multiple strophe grafts. As for Poetry.com, I think there's a special aluminum choir loft in hell for the people that run it. | ||
| Ingrid Ringel
Valued Member Username: adelphi Post Number: 291 Registered: 09-2007 |
A year ago I innocently posted a couple of my first poems at poetry.com and thought I was smart enough not to send them any money or give them permission to publish. To my surprise I recently found my poems published on their website with the offer to buy a tote bag, giftcards etc. printed with MY poem! I have no idea whether they have gotten any orders, probably not. Since in the meantime both poems have undergone revisions I don't really care enough to do anything about the 'theft' but in the future I will be a lot more careful about where to post my work. Ingrid | ||
| W.F. Roby
Intermediate Member Username: wfroby Post Number: 546 Registered: 03-2008 |
Ingrid -- I have been buying and stashing items with your poems on them for years now. I started innocently enough. I got a flea collar for my mutt. Then I went a little insane. My car, for instance, features a sonnet of yours in ALL CAPS running the length and depth of my floorboards. Let's not even talk about the cigars covered in various Pantoums (Pantoumii?) I'm after a nifty set of cufflinks... could you send them a couple French-style haiku? Cheers | ||
| Ingrid Ringel
Valued Member Username: adelphi Post Number: 293 Registered: 09-2007 |
W.F., I am flattered! How big are the cufflinks, will cinquains fit? If you are willing to spend a little more I currently have a special: cinquain cufflinks with matching sonnett on a silk tie. Because you are a WPF member I'll throw in one-liner earrings. I. | ||
| Ingrid Ringel
Valued Member Username: adelphi Post Number: 294 Registered: 09-2007 |
everything for $9.99 plus a free nailclipper!!! | ||
| AsaSakae
New member Username: asasakae Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2008 |
WF Roby ~ I don't think that its been better said (smile) ~ Asa | ||
| Will Eastland
Intermediate Member Username: dwillo Post Number: 828 Registered: 07-2006 |
I don't know, $45 a year is pretty cheap as far as rented validation goes. Remember, demand creates it's own supply. I want either less corruption, or more chance to participate in it. ~Ashleigh Brilliant | ||
| Kathy Paupore
Moderator Username: kathy Post Number: 10331 Registered: 12-2003 |
Poetry.com or poets.com is one of the first sites that come up when you search for poetry, and I've also seen it pop up on other sites I was searching. We all like contests or lotteries, it's easy to get suckered in. Will you are correct on the supply and demand, and rented validation. Asa, maybe poets.com was a good place to gather at one time, and it's just a shame it's a money making scam. I have learned to be suspicious of any place I would have to pay to post or submit my poetry. caveat emptor Kathy You're invited to: Wild Flowers Free verse in not, of course, free.--Mary Oliver | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32600 Registered: 11-1998 |
Aw, Roby. I've had a flag with one of your poems on it for years. The neighbors made me take it down, though. Called it "indecent exposure" or some such thang. Love, M | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5144 Registered: 05-2006 |
I subscribe to the journal Commode-ious, which is printed on a roll of toilet paper, with a different poem, mini-essay, or micro-fiction piece on every square. Roby, the theme in the last issue was "Flushed with Success," and I was thrilled to see your poem "Bidet or Night" featured on square 143. Fred * * * * * From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| Ron. Lavalette
Advanced Member Username: dellfarmer Post Number: 1336 Registered: 05-2007 |
Is this somehow different from the $5.95 I get billed for each time I post here at Wild? Just wondering. --Ron. Eggs Over Tokyo | ||
| Will Eastland
Intermediate Member Username: dwillo Post Number: 829 Registered: 07-2006 |
$Ron, we love you and your poetry$ I want either less corruption, or more chance to participate in it. ~Ashleigh Brilliant | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32606 Registered: 11-1998 |
Only $5.95, Ron? Jeez -- I gotta talk to the bean counters in accounting. It's supposed to be $10.95. But do they read my memos? Obviously not. Love, M | ||
| Jeffrey S. Lange
Advanced Member Username: runatyr Post Number: 1100 Registered: 10-2005 |
Ahhh, Poetry.com! A friend sent me the "challenge" before at one point years ago to do much as you suggest, Kathy. So I wrote a horrid piece of poetry and sent it in. Not surprisingly, I was soon informed that I was a semi-finalist, my work would be featured in one of their volumes, and I was invited to Florida to celebrate my win, etc. etc. I wrote under the pen name, "Frankle Merbison". My "winning" entry follows. Enjoy! ;) Charlie’s Stew No one saw what Charlie saw in stew of beef and potato. No one looked in the box where Charlie sometimes looked. One summer's eve of fragranty cool I saw that Charlie by the pool he thought maybe to not go to school but I said he was a fool and sat on a stool. Let's get back to Charlie's stew. Beef and potato. Now what do you think? Everything's different, isn't it? And then there's the matter of the box. It was cardboard. Now you know. O Charlie! O Charles. "Yo quiero hacer contigo lo que la primavera hace con los cerezos." ~Pablo Neruda Translated: "I want to do with you what spring does with the cherry trees." | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Moderator Username: garydawg Post Number: 26395 Registered: 07-2001 |
And why am I charged $11.99 (before S/H, taxes and fees)? Smiles. Gary Celebrate Walt with Gary: http://www.poetrykit.org/pkl/tw10/tw4conte.htm | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32607 Registered: 11-1998 |
I happen to like Charlie's stew, Jeffrey. But only if he puts it in the box. On the stool. Before he goes to school. Sometimes. Or another. Or something. What was I saying? Oh, yeah -- it's fragranty!!! My new favorite word!!!  Dearest Mr. B -- maybe because you're so special? Love, M | ||
| Jeffrey S. Lange
Advanced Member Username: runatyr Post Number: 1101 Registered: 10-2005 |
It is terribly profound and thought-provoking, isn't it? ;) Hehe. "Yo quiero hacer contigo lo que la primavera hace con los cerezos." ~Pablo Neruda Translated: "I want to do with you what spring does with the cherry trees." | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5149 Registered: 05-2006 |
Jeffrey, Some poems float in the ether in the form of luminous potentiality until some evolved soul channels them, and presents them as a gift to humanity. You have done us a great service. Bravo! Fred From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| Jeffrey S. Lange
Advanced Member Username: runatyr Post Number: 1102 Registered: 10-2005 |
Thank you, Fred. I've postponed my trip to the awards ceremony in Florida until I can afford the hefty price tag for travel and accommodations, but it will be worth it when they give me a nickel-plated trophy that looks like real silver with MY name on it. Paying for the books with my brilliant work in them seems reasonable as well; it's only fair that I help finance the books now that I'm famous. I have to pay it forward and save as many people as possible with my work. Jeff "Yo quiero hacer contigo lo que la primavera hace con los cerezos." ~Pablo Neruda Translated: "I want to do with you what spring does with the cherry trees." | ||
| Andrew Dufresne
Advanced Member Username: beachdreamer Post Number: 1920 Registered: 01-2006 |
I'm there with the "fragranty" crowd. Thanks for the web site mentioned here. I, too, can be genius, fly to exotic land, spend money, meet hot women! ad | ||
| peter coch
New member Username: petercoch Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2008 |
Waxing kinda wannabe in the workshop and pc smitten by summer lightning anyway so he figures he'll swagger over to EO and have a smoke break with the rancheros -only to find enough thread there to hang himself from the rafters. Thanks Kathy for not just throwing me a line about that clanger I made with Growing Pains. Sheepishly he makes his way back to the t crossing exercise. | ||
| Kathy Paupore
Moderator Username: kathy Post Number: 10435 Registered: 12-2003 |
Peter, I had no idea where "Growing Pains" was published when you mentioned it was, and you never said. Don't hang yourself over it. Plenty have been taken in by poetry.com. It's a learning experience. Kathy You're invited to: Wild Flowers Free verse in not, of course, free.--Mary Oliver | ||
| AsaSakae
New member Username: asasakae Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2008 |
There were/are actually two sites - poetry.com and poets.com. Poets was the sister site owned and operated by Poetry. Poets was a gathering place - Poetry was the contest rip off side. Back in 2005 there were few places to gather and so many showed up at Poets - from Fulbright scholars to stay at home moms. This is where I met a certain retired physician (certainly not one to be taken in by scams) and others who would forever change my so called literary efforts (for the better I'm happy to say). I guess my point is - over on the Poets side there was much good going on under the radar. Eventually the scam side infiltrated and changed things, sad to say - for the worse. The result being, mass exodus. There is no shame in having once been there in spite of the acknowledged scam going on - artists do what artists do .. gather and share. The real shame belongs to those who would take advantage of artistic natures for monetary profit. Good to land here where such does not go on. We learn, we live - we carry on ;) | ||
| Kathy Paupore
Moderator Username: kathy Post Number: 10436 Registered: 12-2003 |
Poets.com may have been an nice gathering place at one time, but I would have a hard time getting past the membership fee. Nobody should have to pay to have their poetry critiqued, especially not at such a large on-line community. If you go to poetry.com and click on social networking up comes poets.com. So, it's one and the same as I'm looking at it. Whether its poetry.com asking for money to publish you in one of their books, or poets.com asking for a membership fee it's a scam to take your money. Multiply those millions of members by the $5.95 a month or $45.00 a year, and you'll know why they are really offering their on-line community to unsuspecting consumers. Kathy You're invited to: Wild Flowers Free verse in not, of course, free.--Mary Oliver | ||
| AsaSakae
Member Username: asasakae Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2008 |
To be honest, the membership at both sites is currently minuscule compared to current advertising and to what it once was back in 2004/5 (they do keep old member names posted even though they no longer exist). Back then there was no other web site offering such a gathering place. Also, back then, no one paid $5/month for membership but rather contributed yearly .. working out to about $2.50/month or, the price of a cup of coffee at Starbucks. There were certain features to the poets side that made the paid for membership worth while - like complete privacy from Google and internal email systems .. things that can't be done for free in this new world of technology. Many on the poets side looked the other way after discovering the affiliation with Poetry side - but when management changed in 2006 - creating what can only be called a hostile environment ... well, all rational-thinking people bailed. Cannot say how thankful I am for the Wild | ||
| W.F. Roby
Intermediate Member Username: wfroby Post Number: 555 Registered: 03-2008 |
In 2004/2005 there were SEVERAL sites offering "such a gathering place". Not to pick nits, but Wild was one of them. There were others. The effort required to FIND such places is equal to the value of said place. In other words, simply typing "poets.com" or "poetry.com" into a browser was easy -- and the end result of such an effort was an easy (and overall useless) experience. Cheers. | ||
| AsaSakae
Member Username: asasakae Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2008 |
Yes there were sites - but like I said, not that offered the features found there. One had to be there to truly understand - I guess. The experience was far from useless, for myself and many many others - but that's another story. Regarding effort - think I've scoped out every site available - literally, and find Wild to be the the most comfortable, when all is said and done. Decided to take a look at what goes on there these days (poets) and registered a free trial this evening. Shameful what they have done - just shameful. Doing a poet search - there are an advertised 40 some odd thousand members - many bogus as they no longer belong (their names however remain posted - even mine from 2004). Basically lies, lies and more lies all over the place. Yes - cheers  | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5213 Registered: 05-2006 |
I have participated in about a two dozen poetry sites going back to about 2000. These include The Gazebo, Eratosphere, the Melic Roundtable, Salty Dreams, Desert Moon, the infamous PFFA, Critical Poet, and the site run by Didi Menendez. I think that before Google and Yahoo evolved to where they are now, it was somewhat harder to find a good poetry site. For example, I didn't find this one until mid-2006, when the extremely talented Sarah Sloat tipped me off to it. * * * * * It seems to me that even in 2003-4, if a person could ONLY find the sites run by poetry.com, he or she was displaying a very low level of search-diligence. This beings up an interesting correlation question regarding a low level of search-diligence and a reluctance to expend the time and effort to revise a poem. It also brings up a side question: Did those who stumbled on poetry.com/poets.com really only land there, or did they land on other sites, but quickly found that members of those other sites gave more sophisticated, hard-hitting, thoughtful, intensive critiques -- in short, critiques that were not pats on the head -- and so they gravitated to the feel-good site because pats on the head was what they wanted? * * * * * Fred From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| Kathy Paupore
Moderator Username: kathy Post Number: 10438 Registered: 12-2003 |
Wild asks no fee to join. Multiply that $2.50 a month x say 1,000,000 members, that's $2,500,000 dollars a month, someone's getting rich. I can't imagine they give out that much in prize money, if they even give any out at all. If you search Google and type in the word poetry at the top of the list is "poetry.com." It couldn't be any easier to find a site. Kathy You're invited to: Wild Flowers Free verse in not, of course, free.--Mary Oliver | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32731 Registered: 11-1998 |
Be careful with correlations, Freddie. Did you know that the majority of divorced people drink Pepsi? That's a correlation one study uncovered. Does drinking Pepsi lead to divorce? I doubt it. And perhaps people who stumble over poetry.com/poets.com are simply naive. Many are to both poetry in general and poetry websites in specific. It's easy to be taken in by these types of scams when one is new to the game (either a beginning poet or a beginner to the online crit world). What we old-timers might think obvious (how to find a decent critique site) may not be so obvious. Unless you know to type "poetry scams" into google, there isn't really any review site to access on the worth of online workshop environments. And most newbies don't realize people are actually out there just waiting to scam them. Scammed with regard to poetry? If asked, a vast majority wouldn't even know that's being done. If they are guilty of anything, it might simply be being too trusting. They take things at face value. And when someone offers them recognition, publication, and some award plaques, they believe it's legit. Love, M | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5218 Registered: 05-2006 |
~M~, I am fully aware of the difference between correlation and causation. That said, correlation is an extremely important tool. I would go so far as to say that the overwhelming majority of scientific (or non-scientific) investigations into causation proceed from an initial "hunch" or speculation based on correlation. Put in strict logical terms, correlation does not imply caution, but it generates a heuristic framework from which a causal relationship can be investigated. On the other hand, a proved causal relationship does imply correlation. The Pepsi vis a vis some arbitrary population "correlation" is a debater's herring, unless we are talking about some matter that has a logical relationship to Pepsi, such as caffeine consumption and its relationship, say, to a test of reaction time. .......... I do strongly suspect that those who do not look very hard for something on the internet may well also be people who don't look very hard in other areas of life. To a lesser confidence level, I suspect they may be people who don't persevere in the development of a poem past the first draft. I will also say that being a newer poet unfamiliar with the greater poetry scene and likewise unfamiliar with the internet poetry scene correlates poorly with one's broader ability to function on the internet. Put differently, I would say it is quite common for a person to be marginally competent at surfing the web, using Google or Yahoo, and sending and receiving email, and yet be almost completely ignorant a priori of the internet poetry scene. I imagine a person who is a daily, relatively heavy internet user, but has little persistence or follow through as a character trait, and who as a result winds up getting involved with the first poetry site he or she finds. I further imagine that, due to stimulus generalization, it would not be unsurprising to find that this same person exercises little follow through in the revision of a poem. Finally, I would not be the least bit surprised to find that individuals who jump into the first poetry site they find are also comparatively resistant to revision of their poems. Fred * * * * * (Message edited by sandiegopoet on January 02, 2009) From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| peter coch
New member Username: petercoch Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2008 |
hi Kathy actually I can't remember which site it was. (That pc is still toast) It wasn't p.com. but having absorbed all this useful advice I sure won't be following up on it. Don't worry, I always overdramatise things I need to remember cheers, welcome to yet another 'new' year and thanks for sharing that eagle eye of yours so freely. | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Moderator Username: garydawg Post Number: 26580 Registered: 07-2001 |
M, the site for scams is Preditors and Editors, the link near the top. They do lean towards prose, but list some poetry sites. They list poetry,com under the National Library of Poetry, one of its many names. Smiles. Gary Celebrate Walt with Gary: http://www.poetrykit.org/pkl/tw10/tw4conte.htm | ||
| AsaSakae
Member Username: asasakae Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2008 |
Definitely, great points/questions all. In my case circa 2004/5, must say the landing at poets was not the best researched and near accidental. Once there, was immediately surrounded by impressive talent by any standard (truthfully) - and that alone made it hard to leave ... a small circle of some powerful poets is certainly preferable to anything else - and I must also acknowledge that my experience is not the norm in this regard. Membership at poets today - if one looks closely, there may be two dozen active - there's a revelation. M - you are the voice of reason here. Fred - Think a Bush is at the bottom of it all. That's all I know - about that | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32732 Registered: 11-1998 |
Freddie, of course I know you know all about correlation and causation. I just said be careful with them. And all your statements were carefully worded to confirm that these are your assumptions, what you suspect and what you imagine. Which is good. Not that I need to tell you this, but what you assume, suspect, and imagine, may be true, not entirely true, not entirely false, or false. This, for instance: "Finally, I would not be the least bit surprised to find that individuals who jump into the first poetry site they find are also comparatively resistant to revision of their poems." That correlation may be there, and it may not. People who jump into the first poetry site they find may also be rather open to revision of their poems. Just because you assume there might be a correlation, that doesn't mean there is. These are judgment calls and postulations, Freddie, based on your experiences. And while they may, in fact, be true, you haven't exactly run an objective, unbiased experiment to test your theories. So long as you understand that these are only your opinions, and that your opinions may prove distasteful to those at whom they are directed, then that's fine, I guess. BTW -- I happen to be one of those people who started posting on the first poetry sites she stumbled over. Not poetry.com/poets.com, thank god, but less than useful websites where posting was a waste of time. And I don't believe myself to have any of those characteristics you listed as correlatives, i.e., don't look very hard in other areas of life, don't persevere in the development of a poem past the first draft, resistant to revision of their poems, etc. Therefore, your theories, at least in my case, prove untrue. And if they prove untrue in my case, then perhaps they prove untrue in others, whether that be a minority or a majority of the time. They may just be "green," dear Freddie, and I believe that merits our sympathies, not our judgments. Love, M | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5220 Registered: 05-2006 |
"On the Relationship between Resistance to Revision in Literary Composition and Willingness to Post on the First Internet Literary Site One Finds" [Robert Jennings, Anita Nunez, James Tarantino, et al Journal of Heuristic Correlations, Vol. 14, no. 7, 2007] abstract of article * * * * * From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32733 Registered: 11-1998 |
"On the Relationship between Superior Intelligence and a Wicked Sense of Humor, Not to Mention the Tendency to be an Endearing Smartass" [Ezekial Pince-Nez, Elvira Fussbudget, Mortimer Snodgrass, et. al., Journal of Bizarre Findings, Vol. 13, No. 13, 2006] No abstract available online, though an extensive search was attempted.  | ||
| W.F. Roby
Intermediate Member Username: wfroby Post Number: 556 Registered: 03-2008 |
Fred and M -- I looked and looked, and finally found some copy from your articles. Fred's article was discovered through a tickling of the ol' "Flexus Nexis". As for M's citation, all that was required to locate it was a long walk off a short BASE (Belated Academic Search Engine). On a slightly more serious note, M, you may find this article helpful in dealing with folks like the celebrated Senor Longworth. Also a good sleep aid. "Online Brand Community in Action. A constitutive netnography: Advancing a wholesome ethnomethodological perspective on brand community. [Abrahamsen, Annicken; Hartmann, Benjamin. Luends Universitet Department of Business Administration, 2006-06-01] | ||
| AsaSakae
Member Username: asasakae Post Number: 55 Registered: 11-2008 |
M - Your critical thinking skills, and abilities to articulate them - are the best I've seen in a long time (since college in fact) .. bravo! | ||
| Jeffrey S. Lange
Advanced Member Username: runatyr Post Number: 1119 Registered: 10-2005 |
Poets.org, btw, is a wonderful site. I mostly go there to read. | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32735 Registered: 11-1998 |
Thanks, AsaSakae. It's no biggie. Fortunately, Freddie gives me lots of practice, don't ya', Freddie? If it weren't for him, I wouldn't be half as smart(ass) as I am. *LOL* Thanks, Roby. And yes, Jeffrey, poets.org is a fabulous resource. Unfortunately, with only those three letters (org) distinguishing them from poets.com, many people mix them up. Which is exactly what poets.com is depending on, I'm sure. Love, M | ||
| AsaSakae
Member Username: asasakae Post Number: 56 Registered: 11-2008 |
Jeffrey - thanks for the reminder. Have not visited that site in quite awhile. Was just spending some time there after reading your post - thanks! | ||
| Jeffrey S. Lange
Advanced Member Username: runatyr Post Number: 1120 Registered: 10-2005 |
True enough, M. I've done it once or twice myself if I am typing the address in instead of looking for the site among my nine billion bookmarks. And I'm glad you re-discovered the site, AsaSakae. |
