| Author | Message | ||
| David Dumais
New member Username: scribbledhopes Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2008 |
When I was young I was more carefree with my work. One of my biggest fans was my younger sister who would sneak into my room and whisk away one of my poem books to find anything new or go over some of her favorites. I let her do this with the rule she would return the book when she was done. Soon many of her friends would come over to read the books and I was growing a fan base. I was flattered. Well you see where this is going, soon the books were shared with friends of friends, people I did not know. What a shock it was when I found out one of my poems had won a local poem contest under someone elses name. The young lady was awarded some small cash prise and the poem went into history as her creation and she was awarded some small aclaim for it. I was very upset, and was tempted to shine a light on this lie but feared hurting the young girl, As from what I was told her parents went to the ceremony to get her whatever and I am sure it would hurt them as well, as well as other people who had entered poems, then people would lose face in the process. Maybe they wouldn't do it anymore and other artists would lose a chance to be heard, and that would be sad. So I bit my lip but guarded my books like gold, my sister was heartbroken but understood. I did realize after a time I was being selfish and let her read them again, but she never did share them with anyone again. I took the poem out of my collection and destroyed it. It just didn't seem like mine anymore. This was years and years ago, when I was in my last year of highschool. Odd it still bothers me. Has anything like this ever happen to you, how did you handle it? | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 3619 Registered: 05-2006 |
I would've gone public. Around here, plagarism results in the offender's getting kicked off the forum. Fred Unofficial Forum Pariah recent victim of alien abduction | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Moderator Username: garydawg Post Number: 23155 Registered: 07-2001 |
Likewise, doesn't matter the age - a thief is a thief... Smiles. Gary Celebrate Walt with Gary: http://www.poetrykit.org/pkl/tw10/tw4conte.htm | ||
| Judy Thompson
Intermediate Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1000 Registered: 11-2007 |
In a way it's like letting a kid off the hook when she pinches something from the store, so you don't 'embarrass her' publicly. All it really does is encourage her to do it again. Plagiarism is one of the big deal sins in writing, no matter the age or the intent. You learned not to share your work with third party unknowns, and so, I suspect, did your sister; but the kid who took that piece as her own may still be doing the same thing at a much higher level. | ||
| Emusing
Senior Member Username: emusing Post Number: 5578 Registered: 08-2003 |
It's an injustice to yourself and it doesn't help this girl who knows she is sitting on a minefield and anytime she thinks of it or it is mentioned, it sits there scaring the crap out of her. It may be a small thing but it's how bigger things get started. I believe you would do well to confront her in a way which is not accusatory but straightforward and let the girl know that you know and ask her to take responsibility for her actions. See if she comes clean. I always give people the chance. e www.wordwalkerpress.com | ||
| Lazarus
Senior Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 3206 Registered: 10-2005 |
I can't imagine why anyone would do this! It's a thrill to have something you wrote be seen and liked by others, but if it's not yours, I don't see the thrill. I suppose it could have started out innocently; she needed a poem for a class; figured something she copied from your book wasn't known. Then later on someone liked it enough to enter it. By that time she was fully into denial about it. I don't feel bad for you though, at least not that bad, because hey, your poem won! But I wouldn't have torn up the original. That was the only proof that it was yours. Someday you could have gently encouraged her to admit her error. If she became a good writer because of it, so much the better! And no. This never happened to me and I doubt it ever would! -Laz | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 29411 Registered: 11-1998 |
Kids do a lot of things they shouldn't do. They steal things, they drink alcohol, they smoke, they do drugs. And that's just to name a few. Other kids also do a lot of things they shouldn't do like not rat on their friends. This is part of being young and not realizing the greater significance of doing things they shouldn't do. While that doesn't make it right, that does make it explainable as a rite of passage of sorts, a way of learning to maneuver in the world. Kids make mistakes. That's part of how we learn. We adults also realize that the crimes of children are slightly different than the crimes of adults. That's why there's a juvenile justice system set apart from the adult one. We punish them less severely and pray that they learn from their mistakes. Some do, and go on to be good people and good citizens. When I was young, my parents bought me a birthstone ring. It was very distinctive in design. I showed it to my friend who was also born in the same month as I was. Later, after she visited my house on another occasion, I noticed the ring was missing. And the next day, she was wearing the ring. She told me her parents bought it for her. I never said anything further to her about it nor did I tell either my parents or hers. It did hurt me, but now when I think about it, I realize we were both very young. Neither of us really knew the significance of what happened -- her theft, my reticence to say anything. And I put it in the category of perhaps she needed this ring more than I did. I forgive her and myself for our youth. Perhaps she thinks about it to this day. Perhaps she is sorry. I know a lot of people who are very sorry for things they did in their youth like stealing candy bars from stores. They didn't go on to become professional thieves. They learned from their mistakes. And their own guilt after coming of age and realizing what they'd done was punishment enough. Who among us has not done something in our youth that we are very sorry for? Most likely very few of us were complete angels. And probably most of us are very ashamed and wished we hadn't done what we did. That we had known better. When you know better, you do better. I would say that people with no conscience are the minority, not the majority, though I have no statistics to prove that. Maybe that's a way of looking at the theft of your poem, David. It was a negative event, but it was also an example of young people just being young and in some ways innocent of the full impact of their actions. Perhaps if you see it that way, it will help you to come to terms with the injustice done to you. Injustice is part of life. Sometimes what happens to us, while not fair, is an important lesson. Bad things happen to people every day. Often there is no restitution. Understanding this helps us get through it, and move past it. She was young and ignorant, David. And so were you. Ignorant of the full impact of stealing, ignorant of the consequences of not saying anything. I hope that helps you to put it into perspective. And come to some place where understanding and forgiveness are possible. Best, M | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 3745 Registered: 05-2006 |
And if understanding and forgiveness doesn't work out, email me and I'll tell you how to get in touch with Gino and Marcello, the infamous poetry goons. Fred Unofficial Forum Pariah recent victim of alien abduction | ||
| brenda morisse
Advanced Member Username: moritric Post Number: 1596 Registered: 04-2007 |
Dearest M, mi hermana, you have written something so important that i could lose my breath. I have never learned this lesson. In my life I have forgiven only a couple of times, and in those cases it required nothing on my part except love. A love so deep that nothing could ever shake it or deface it. Of course I speak of the love for my children, and perhaps abuelita bonita and mamita, and you, but no one else. I have held on to my hurt and wounds like a second skin. My list of transgressors is longer than any list I've ever written to santa claus. I have toyed with forgiveness. I have convinced myself that all is forgiven but the hurt and anger always return like dust. Yes dear swinka, my anger and pain dirty the windows and I can't see past them. love, love, borrachita | ||
| Lisa England
Valued Member Username: diamondwife Post Number: 210 Registered: 08-2007 |
The ability to forgive benifits not just the forgiven, but the one who forgives. Grudges darken the heart, make it harder to love. Being forgiven is a wonderful gift I have been given many times over. I find it a blessing to offer the same gift to others.  Lisa England
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| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 29419 Registered: 11-1998 |
Yes, Freddie. Perhaps I will e-mail you too for the way to get in touch with Gino and Marcello. See, even I am no saint. *LOL* Dearest hermana -- we humans are funny creatures. We think that if we do not forgive, it hurts the person we will not forgive. And maybe it does. But I think it hurts us more. It can make our windows very dirty, as you know, and us very bitter. Bitter people with dirty windows are very hard to live with. And what's worse is they often find it hard to live with themselves since they can't see out their own windows. They find themselves alone and lonely, no matter how many people are around. That's sad. It only compounds the injury, as if the original hurt wasn't bad enough. I hurt enough. Why make myself hurt even worse? I forgive others because it's a good thing to do. For them, but for myself too. Hurting exhausts me, and I don't want to hurt anymore. We often look to others to help us stop hurting when we already have the key. No one else, no lack of forgiveness or apology or restitution, can make the pain go away completely. We must do that for ourselves. We must care about ourselves enough to do that. In this respect, forgiveness could be seen as selfish, not selfless. See, as I told Freddie, I am definitely no saint, as my motives are not always completely other-directed. Even the Samaritans aren't completely selfless. I don't want my own pain dirtying up my windows. Maybe I should come wash your windows, though, just for you. *LOL* Love, M | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1088 Registered: 11-2007 |
sometimes forgiveness works sometimes it just says, 'it's okay, this never happened" which is a lie. when what was done is a large thing, and the doer remorseless, utterly clueless, forgiveness only allows the doer to get away with it, emotionally. A selfish act that hurts only other people to avoid hurting oneself is not worthy of forgiveness. It's that simple. Small things can be forgiven, Im not so sure large things can be, no matter what words you use. Or perhaps Im just not generous enough to be that generous. Dunno. | ||
| Lisa England
Valued Member Username: diamondwife Post Number: 211 Registered: 08-2007 |
Forgiveness doesn't mean it never happened. It doesn't mean you have to place yourself in a vulnerable position with the person you've forgiven. It just means you've let go of the past hurt and no longer carry it with you. I still don't particularly like my Dad's wife, but I have let go of some past hurts because they were damaging to me when I carried them with me. That doesn't mean I have to love her or trust her. Refusing to forgive a hurt, especially a big one, is damaging not to the person who committed the hurt, but to the person who does not forgive. For example, if you refuse to forgive a man who raped you, he could care less. But if you carry that bitterness in your heart for life it damages you and he goes on hurting you for your entire life. I guess you can look at forgiveness as taking back control of your own life, if you move on the person who hurt you can't hurt you anymore, if you keep it, they can hurt you every day. I just don't want to give any other person that kind of control over me. Lisa England
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| David Dumais
New member Username: scribbledhopes Post Number: 50 Registered: 03-2008 |
I try and let it go, I can understand they are young, even back then I feared exposing it would cause the greater harm. I paid the price in trust over the years, it did take its toll. I didn't trust my work out of my sight for a bit. But I like to think as I have become older I have become wiser,... Well okay maybe just older, and try to let it go. I am just amazed that this didn't happen to a bunch of others. I figured it would be a common problem. Alas.. Thanks though, you comments and open dialog helps me air it out a bit, I never really talked about it before after my first initial rage about it with my sister, it helped. (Message edited by scribbledhopes on April 12, 2008) I am not perfect but the worlds not perfect, so we are a matching set. | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1095 Registered: 11-2007 |
david, it well may happen more than we realize, but we just never see it. I often wonder how much plagiarism is out there, but we miss it because we aren't seeing it when it happens. | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 3747 Registered: 05-2006 |
When I was a senior English major at San Diego State University I wrote a paper on how William Butler Yeats threw off the (negative) influence of Arthur Hallam. Hallam was immensely popular when Yeats was very young, and Yeats admired him. A stylistic similarity imbued Yeats' poetry for perhaps a decade -- and gradually he, being the far superior poet, cast it off. Anyhow, at the age of 21 I figured this all out, and so I wrote about a 10-15 page paper for my Modern British Literature class. The teacher didn't think I could have written it, and he "proved" this by asking me a number of questions about Hallam and his friend Alfred Lord Tennyson. Now I knew about their friendship, but this was only a senior paper, not a masters or PhD thesis, and after all it was mainly about Yeats breaking free of Hallam's influence. So my answers to the professor's questions were brief. He asked me very few questions about the actual thesis of my paper, and mainly concerned himself with proving that I had plagiarized the paper. At the end of the interrogation, he told me he was giving me an "F" for being a plagiarist. The "F" was not just for the paper, but for the entire semester's work, even though otherwise I was doing well in the class. I thought it was bullshit. I lodged a protest with the faculty ombudsman. Based on his investigation, he concluded that the professor had acted with prejudice. But to save face for the professor, the ombudsman decided to give me an incomplete in the class and allow me to retake the course from a different professor. That I did. A couple of years later the professor died of emphysema, and as you might guess I did not mourn his passing. Fred * * * * * (Message edited by sandiegopoet on April 12, 2008) Unofficial Forum Pariah recent victim of alien abduction | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1096 Registered: 11-2007 |
I guess, when an injustice has been committed, whether you are exonerated or convicted, it becomes a personal matter between what you can carry (perhaps partly as a reminder to never let it happen to you again, nor to commit the same kind of injustice toward someone else), perhaps needfully, and what you can let go of. It isnt so much clutching bitterness to our heaving bosoms as it is working through what was done, and coming out (with any luck at all) clean at the other end. I think the thing that helped mitigate what happened, Fred, at least for you, is that the ombudsman saw your side, and did what he could to salvage something for both sides. And yes, it does sound as if the professor was looking for bear and even if you had showed him a polecat he'd have called it a bear and shot it. | ||
| Lazarus
Senior Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 3208 Registered: 10-2005 |
My plagiarism story- When I was a freshman in College I was unable to get to the final in my sociology 101 class because of an injury and a torn up parking lot I couldn't cross (no kidding). It was an easy test and everyone aced it. I went to him to see what I could do and he said I couldn't take the test, but I could write a paper. He handed me a paper writen by one of his senior students, and said, "Here, just copy this and get it to me by a certian tme." I was floored. I took the paper and tried to read it but I didn't understand it. I wasn't going to just copy something I didn't understand so I went back to him and asked for something else. He said if I didn't do what he asked I'd get an incomplete so, I took an incomplete. -Laz | ||
| Judy Thompson
Advanced Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 1123 Registered: 11-2007 |
my own is indirect. On another message board far far from here a woman (who is also a skilled writer and should know better), in one of her posts began to talk about the glories of being southern, and easily and lightly segued into a fairly well-known (but of the 'where have I heard that before variety) speeches of Ann Richards (who DID give proper credit to the author). When she was done, she just ended the post without giving credit. Everyone said, great writing. And she said, thank you. I was stunned. It took me a week to dig it out, to be sure of the citation, and by then of course the moment to call her on it had passed, the post itself was buried, and the admin suggested I just let it go. that has rankled me ever since. yes, yes, I know, let it go... | ||
| tristan watts
New member Username: cementcoveredcherries Post Number: 13 Registered: 04-2008 |
oh my goddess! david, i could never imagine that! so horrible...there reaches a point where you can forgive but never forget. i would have gone public with it. those were not only your words but expression and heart. tristan p.s. don't forget the rule of karma... (Message edited by cementcoveredcherries on April 30, 2008) |
