| Author | Message | ||
| bel_canto
Member Username: bel_canto Post Number: 82 Registered: 06-2006 |
Had a conversation with another poet a couple of days ago about what's appropriate in our response to the suggestions others make on our work. Wondering if I'm not overdoing it in giving explanations of why something doesn't work for me. I'm a great lover of the process (creating a poem) and the exchange that can evoke, but perhaps I merely come off as defensive and resistant. I notice many here just say thanks and that's it, basically, show what resonated for them of all comments in rewrites. What they incorporate into those. I don't see anything wrong with that necessarily, and perhaps it's the best way to avoid offending others? But how do we hit a comfortable balance between showing that we appreciate the thought and time someone puts into going over our work and appearing as if we are totally indifferent to what they have to say? | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 2240 Registered: 10-2005 |
Brenda- This is a great topic and I don't recall it coming up here at Wild (at least that I noticed) I think the most important thing to remember is manners in responding to comments. I believe the commenter is putting themselves out there, almost as much as the poet, so in response you have to be very careful of feelings. It's never wrong to say I am glad to get your take on that, I'm happy to hear you like this or that, and if there is something they bring up that is totally unexpected you can say that too, just do it politely. I agree that it's easy to fall into defending your poem, and you can do that, but I don't think you'll find it very productive. However, if you feel that some important thing you wanted the poem to do has not worked, and the commenter is willing, I think asking about it is OK. But perhaps at that point, at Wild anyway, the poem should be dropped into sublux. -Laz My Web Page | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 26711 Registered: 11-1998 |
Thank you for bringing up this topic, bel. It's a good one. In my opinion, this particular area requires a great deal of finesse. It requires just as thick a skin to hear that your recommendations/suggestions don't work for an author as it does to hear recommendations/suggestions on your own poems. Some are better at it than others. I suppose that you must consider what your motivations are in being totally honest with someone about whether or not their recommendations work for you. Yes, you do run the risk of sounding defensive. But beyond that, what do you hope to accomplish by, in essence, telling someone they are wrong? Is being right or being understood worth the risk of alienating people who had good intentions? In my opinion, sometimes, but not often. If someone gives you a gift (which is what a crit is), can you tell them the gift doesn't fit or is the wrong color? Yes, but you run the risk that they will be less likely to enthusiastically run to give you gifts in the future. Do it often enough and they will stop giving you gifts entirely. And while this particular gift wasn't right or appropriate, do you really want to lessen the chances of receiving the perfect gift in the future? Sometimes it's worth listening quietly to ten recommendations that don't work in order to up the chances that you will get one perfect recommendation that saved your poem from the trash heap. It's a risk/reward ratio kind of thing. Is not being able to be completely honest right or good? No, perhaps not, but that's human nature, like it or not. There will be some people with whom you can be completely honest, but with the rest, it's often better just to quietly say thank you and move on. I've seen lots of people get their feelings hurt, lots of arguments ensue, and I often wonder why the author didn't leave well enough alone and just say thank you. Isn't it the thought that counts when it comes to gifts? Shouldn't you just be grateful that someone thought enough of you and your poem to want to help? Validating yourself often makes others feel invalidated. Each of us has to decide whether this is worth it or not. After nearly ten years of working in crit forums, I've come to the conclusion that if you repeatedly make people feel stupid or unnecessary by explaining how wrong or unworkable their suggestions were, they are going to shy away from you, simple as that. You will be right and validated, but you will be standing there all alone. For me, as I can only speak for myself, this isn't worth it. Being right can often be counterproductive. It's lonely at the top. *grin* Love, M | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 2247 Registered: 10-2005 |
"Validating yourself often makes others feel invalidated."~M Well put. And I'm going to write that one down for later. -Laz My Web Page | ||
| bel_canto
Member Username: bel_canto Post Number: 90 Registered: 06-2006 |
M, you are so right, and Laz hones in on the most succinct observation of all you point out. Not only will I write that one down, I'll pin it up on my computer screen to help me keep my big foot out of my big mouth in future!  | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Moderator Username: garydawg Post Number: 19322 Registered: 07-2001 |
Had a conversation with another poet a couple of days ago about what's appropriate in our response to the suggestions others make on our work. bel, speak and write about why you do something in your work. It helps all of us to know how the creative process works. Even those who think they do not need to know. Smiles. Gary | ||
| Hephaestes
Intermediate Member Username: hephaestes Post Number: 553 Registered: 12-2006 |
Hey bel, I don't think you respond inappropriately. You've got some spine. That's a good thing. When you explain your process, you make me think you care about my comments (you're chewing on them). I can also reflect on and learn from your understanding. All the best, Heph | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 26718 Registered: 11-1998 |
Thank you, ladies, for listening. I'm not sure whether I'm right or not, but they were my honest opinions. As you can see, bel, Heph here gave you another very important angle. He appreciates explanations and is willing and open to hearing them. He is proof positive of what I said about there being some people with whom you can be completely honest. I suppose it all comes down to the individual. Who you are, who the other person is and how open you both are to the process. Your relationship to one another is an important part of this whole equation. Test people out, bel. That's the only way you're gonna know for sure. And if you figure out a way we can clone Heph, do let me know! *grin* Love, M | ||
| Fred Longworth
Advanced Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 2210 Registered: 05-2006 |
One thing that this forum does not tolerate (and I sure am glad of it) is sadisticrits. Since I myself have latent sadisticritonia, I am very sensitive to this trait. A satisticritter is only obliquely interested in your poem. What really turns this person on is the opportunity to show the community how incredibly clever he or she is. Even more central in the sadisticritter's agenda, however, is the pleasure taken in engaging in brutal ad hom under the guise of candid critique. For example, suppose a poem has rough, uneven cadence. A straight-shooter might say: "I stumbled on ---. Perhaps --- would smooth it out." A sadisticritter might say: "The way your lines lurch and stutter comes as no surprise." Certain forums which will go unnamed, such as the Poetry-Free-For-All, actually encourage sadisticritters. I believe this is for pure entertainment, much like cockfighting, gladiatorial combat, or picketing abortion clinics. Fred |
