| Author | Message | ||
| Rus Bowden
Intermediate Member Username: rusbowden Post Number: 304 Registered: 03-2007 |
These three blogs take up what Ted Ganoways calls the "internationalization of American literature," specifically poetry: Ted Ganoways at The Virginia Quarterly Review blog: Muldoon to Take Over as New Yorker Poetry Editor Jennifer Howard at The Chronicle of Higher Education blog: Internationalizing American Poetry? and Frank Wilson at his Philadelphia Inquirer blog Books Inq.: At least it's not outsourcing ... . | ||
| Emusing
Senior Member Username: emusing Post Number: 4732 Registered: 08-2003 |
Russ, Took a workshop this January with Muldoon in San Miguel. What a nice fellow but a sort of gentle non-participant. Maybe it was jet lag? Dunno. So now he is head of The New Yorker. Amazing! Anyway, half the people in this yearly workshop usually come from the UK, with a couple of high profile Americans. I love the idea of "internationalism" in American literature. The more viewpoints and cultures the better. The other poet, Glyn Maxwell (also mentioned in this article) was at the workshop. A serious and caring participant contributor to the workshop process. e www.wordwalkerpress.com | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 2191 Registered: 10-2005 |
Yes I think American poetry should be internalized, as much as can be, that is, until we reach the bursting point and then we should fling it on a giant wall, into a mural of such beauty that all wars would cease and politicians would start giving their millions to the people who really need it. Oh I would just love to see THAT! -Laz My Web Page | ||
| Rus Bowden
Intermediate Member Username: rusbowden Post Number: 305 Registered: 03-2007 |
Since I posted last night, people have commented in the threads at both The Chronicle of Higher Education and Books Inq. In fact Ted Genoways, the originator of the discussion at VQR, has commented in the discussion at The Chronicle. And, around the poetry web, these poetry lovers have commented: Incognito at The Critical Poet MaryAnn at The Fray Didi Menendez at mipo's cafe' cafe' Emusing and Lazarus at Wild Poetry Forum Nadia_Tarasova at The Writers Block . (Message edited by rusbowden on September 22, 2007) | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 2194 Registered: 10-2005 |
Oh you said internNATIONALized! OK. My take on this question is to ask first why do we call it American poetry? I think we Americans think we can Americanize everything. We didn't invent poetry, and when we found our voice in literature in the early 20th century it wasn't American, it was post-industrial revolution- the whole world was going through that, and all kinds of art reflected it. So a book like the best AMERICAN poetry gives the editors a geographical cut off. It's not based on style or content. And any editor, no matter the nationality, is likely going to do a good job if he's a good editor. Nationalism is breaking down with the web. More and more we will be working in a blended environment in every area of production. So we aren't internationalizing AMERICAN poetry; we are joining a non-national community of poets, where the art will thrive and improve with the input it gets from every quarter. -Laz My Web Page | ||
| MV
Senior Member Username: michaelv Post Number: 578 Registered: 11-2003 |
In the course of 20thC, hasn't American poetry(Lit) evolved from an intranational to increasingly international into the 21thC. And in the last decade, haven't cyber literary venues further encouraged this global emergence into the body of contemporary international lit.  Michael (MV) | ||
| Will Eastland
Intermediate Member Username: dwillo Post Number: 357 Registered: 07-2006 |
I guess I don't see a problem with "American Poetry". Poetry is always influenced and informed by the culture in which the writer lives, and every culture of every country is unique. So won't there always be poetry that is uniquely "American"? If so, is that bad? If not, is something lost? I think so. Having said that, no matter what country he comes from an editor of a US magazine is going to be judged by the readers of publication and will have to take his readership into account at least a little. There is no reason to think that someone from the US can do that better or worse than someone from elswhere. I want either less corruption, or more chance to participate in it. ~Ashleigh Brilliant | ||
| Matt Holck
New member Username: mizz Post Number: 25 Registered: 07-2007 |
most the poems I write focus on the sound of words in english such structure would have to be rewritten if I attempted to translate to other languages My home page NO WAR | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 26611 Registered: 11-1998 |
I was with Mr. Genoways up until this statement: "Maybe we can also hope that an Irish poet such as Muldoon will have an eye for harder-hitting, more topical poetry than we’re used to seeing in mainstream American magazines." As Ms. Howard stated, "So being Irish makes you hard-hitting and topical? I thought we weren’t supposed to generalize based on nationality any more." To Mr. Genoways, I respectfully say, "I'm sorry, but I do believe your national bias slip is showing." I cringe at his misstep there as I'm afraid it takes away from the good points he was attempting to raise and discussion he was hoping to stimulate. In my opinion, Mr. Genoways should have stopped talking after he said this, "Maybe it’s time to put away ideas like Best American this-and-that in favor of publishing the best work, period—regardless of where it appeared or where the writer was born or lives now." That I could get onboard with. | ||
| Will Eastland
Intermediate Member Username: dwillo Post Number: 359 Registered: 07-2006 |
I don't say/ask any of this out of anything more than not understanding what/why a few people have said. Celebrating the best American this or that by no means implies that Americans are the best at doing this or that. Is there something wrong with any one country enjoying what is best about a certain aspect of its culture? If there were a mass of people that wanted a "Best of International Poetry" series, would there not be one? I want either less corruption, or more chance to participate in it. ~Ashleigh Brilliant | ||
| Rus Bowden
Intermediate Member Username: rusbowden Post Number: 306 Registered: 03-2007 |
Responses continue to be posted at The Chronicle of Higher Education's blog: Internationalizing American Poetry? And here are more responses in our online poetry forums: reid welch at Free Wrights Peer Review Lazarus, MV, Will Eastland, & ~M~ at Wild Poetry Forum Michael (MV) & Nadia_Tarasova at The Writers Block . | ||
| Rus Bowden
Intermediate Member Username: rusbowden Post Number: 308 Registered: 03-2007 |
The comments take an international turn in a couple places: Here is Robert Potts at The Guardian's theblogbooks: A new direction for the New Yorker And from Michael in Delhi: The Waters Philadelphia's Books Inq. has a Mid-Western collision: At least it's not outsourcing ... More here, from Beau Blue, Nadia_Tarasova, & Adam E.: The Writer's Block And the responses keep coming at The Chronicle of Higher Education: Internationalizing American Poetry? . | ||
| sue kay
Intermediate Member Username: suekay Post Number: 382 Registered: 11-2005 |
Perhaps "Internationalising" American poetry is a term of art with which I am unfamiliar. Seems to me that all influences on poetry are good, particularly when you have a vast array of English speakers from all over the globe. But I am reminded of one of my favourite books on the art/crticism scene, "The Painted Word" by Tom Wolfe. The point of the book is that when what is said about art is more important than the art, then we ought to just leave out the art entirely and only contemplate what is said about it. Certainly the "what" about poetry seems to trump the poetry itself with such a concept. I myself am not ashamed of being American, but it certainly has currency among the expats I have lived with. You can try to eradicate national identity, but like genetics, its just about what wires our thoughts and language. It is different everywhere. It's experiences and nuances that aren't completely revealed, but underscore every written work(I would bet.) I was just reading Hitchens' book "Why Orwell Matters' and grinned at his use of the phrase, "quintissentially British" (which he italicised so we could see his eyebrows arch I suppose. Now that is quintessentially British) But the point is, its a phrase that resonates whether we like it or not. So maybe there is a "Quintessential American" literature. Do we know what that means? I'm not sure its definable but we know it when we see it. If international influences have a stronger pull, they'll either be absorbed or be victorious. I'll let critics decide whether that is a good thing or not. But try to make it something its not? Its too organic to be mananged I think and all I can say is well, good luck with that. regards Sue | ||
| Rus Bowden
Intermediate Member Username: rusbowden Post Number: 309 Registered: 03-2007 |
Questioning the question of internationalizing, is: sue kay at Wild Poetry Forum and Mitchell Geller (of Desert Moon Review and About Poetry Forum) in the VQR thread. After two posters opt out, arabianlady and Dragon get an excellent discussion going at The Critical Poet JackRabbitt, CutterMcCool, Ted_Burke, MaryAnn, and Lunesta touch on the subject in a brand new thread at The Fray . | ||
| Helen Margaret Rees
Intermediate Member Username: cinnamonbrandy Post Number: 394 Registered: 09-2006 |
At the moment, Americans are the tallest poppies around - with all that that entails. There's a philosophical question: pick a tall poppy - and let's pick a dead one, because that makes things perfectly beautifully hypothetical. Princess Diana shows up at your door. Do you invite her in? If she asks for a lift to the nearest train station, do you give her that? Make her cheese on toast? Lend her your favourite necklace, because she comments on it? Give her your favourite necklace, because she comments on it? Now: you show up at Princess Diana's door. What does she owe you? Given that you'd do all of that for her, just for the asking - does she owe you anything at all? My answer to this is below - but honestly, guys - what's yours? She owes you everything you would owe to someone who showed up at your door *claiming* to be Princess Diana's biggest fan. That's all you are to her, and all you can be, and if that stings at all - well, then you've got you a neat little Stephen King novel going on. Americans are all kinds of wonderful. But the America we see is more often Princess Diana, than Anyone's Biggest Fan. And that definitely colours our attitude to you. Helen | ||
| Marty Abuloc
New member Username: desert_journey Post Number: 5 Registered: 09-2007 |
My take on this. What makes a poem "american"? The only thing I can think of is the "poet" him/herself that makes the poem what it is. The nationality of the poet, or the location where he made the poem can be factors in the decision on whether the poem is american or not. Who decides then? An american composing a poem in Argentina will have a Central American poem or an American Poem? A Filipino composing a poem about his homeland while in New York will have created an american poem or a filipino poem? POetry is universal I think...it is owned by no one, except perhaps by the poet (and that is also debatable to a certain extent) but copyrights are different from deciding whether a poetry is american or not right? Oh just thinking out loud. I enjoyed reading the arguments though...makes for a good thought exercise. | ||
| Rus Bowden
Intermediate Member Username: rusbowden Post Number: 310 Registered: 03-2007 |
More thoughts on the Internationalizing of American poetry: from ewickliffe, Dragon, arabianlady, & dmehl808 as a good conversation takes off at The Critical Poet from Helen Margaret Rees & Marty Abuloc as the good conversation continues at Wild Poetry Forum and from Mason Kelsey at mipo's cafe' cafe' . (Message edited by rusbowden on October 01, 2007) |
