| Author | Message | ||
| Fred Longworth
Advanced Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 1530 Registered: 05-2006 |
I have long argued that wit has become the ugly stepsister of modern poetry. Back when I was getting my B.A. in English Literature (in the Pleistocene Era), the wit of Alexander Pope was esteemed. Even Sylvia Plath incorporated a dark, ironic humor, as in her tour-de-force "Daddy." For whatever reason, contemporary poetry has turned in the direction of serious, serious, serious -- with humor (not the slapdash kind) demoted to light verse. * * * * * Thus it is extremely gratifying to read Collins' essay (as guest editor) at the front end of The Best American Poetry 2006. Not only is his essay immensely witty, but a large number of the poems he chose are as well. Back to his essay. It is simply the best guest-editor essay I've ever read in the many BAP editions I own. Please read it and post your comments. Also Charles Harper Webb has a poem on pp. 138-140, that will blow your socks off (unless you read poetry barefoot.) Fred * * * * * (Message edited by sandiegopoet on June 18, 2007) | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 1635 Registered: 10-2005 |
Fred- May we have a link to this essay on line? I know I could look for it myself, but I'm extremely busy with all these whitty poems to think up and write down.  "Poems are not words, but fires for the cold, ropes let down to the lost, something as necessary as bread in the pockets of the hungry." ~Mary Oliver | ||
| Fred Longworth
Advanced Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 1531 Registered: 05-2006 |
About the best I can do, Laz, is this: http://bestamericanpoetry.com/index.php -- which is a link to the BAP home page. Unfortunately, I can't find the essay itself on the net, probably because it's from the current edition of the series, and the king and queen don't want to let the princess out of the castle, lest she fall in with the wrong croud. Or some such thing. Fred | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 1647 Registered: 10-2005 |
Well ...I tried Amazon too. I guess I'll have to hang around Barns & Nobel next time I'm there to read it. "Poems are not words, but fires for the cold, ropes let down to the lost, something as necessary as bread in the pockets of the hungry." ~Mary Oliver | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Moderator Username: garydawg Post Number: 17577 Registered: 07-2001 |
Fred, thanks for the link. At least two poems from the web, one from Mi Po which I was in back in the day, and one the link doesn't work for. Nearly a BAP first and worth passing round some Nehi raised high. Jacket was in 2005. Smiles. Gary | ||
| Fred Longworth
Advanced Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 1539 Registered: 05-2006 |
One thing I find very significant is Collins' assertion that serious journals tend to give preference to submissions sent as entries to contests (with $) over regular submissions. Fred | ||
| Thomas P. Bird
Member Username: tom_bird Post Number: 78 Registered: 05-2007 |
Billy Collins is real . . . that makes him a great poet. I've really enjoyed the latest BAP . . . more than anyone I've read so far. Tom | ||
| Fred Longworth
Advanced Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 1560 Registered: 05-2006 |
Thanks, Tom, for your comment. Fred * * * * * (Message edited by sandiegopoet on June 23, 2007) | ||
| Fred Longworth
Advanced Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 1563 Registered: 05-2006 |
Amazingly, no one other than me seems to care that Collins is alledging that a great many major editors have a bias toward submissions accompanied by a "backdoor" reading fee, and sent in with a cover letter that is, at best, a list of entries and a brief bio. This runs contrary to the "worldly advice" promulated via Poet's Market et al that one should be suspicious of "reading fees" and send in one's poems as regular submissions, accompanied by thoughtful cover letters. Is everyone but me asleep? Fred | ||
| Teresa White
Valued Member Username: teresa_white Post Number: 268 Registered: 01-2005 |
Hey Fred, Money talks. It always will. Nuff said. ~Teresa | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 1682 Registered: 10-2005 |
Frankly, I'm not surprised, at all. "Poems are not words, but fires for the cold, ropes let down to the lost, something as necessary as bread in the pockets of the hungry." ~Mary Oliver | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 25730 Registered: 11-1998 |
Dearest Fred -- though I have not read the essay, here's my 2 cents (don't you hate it when the uninformed comment?). I would be cautious when taking "allegations" at face value. Is Mr. Collins' "allegation" about reading fees giving submitters an unfair advantage a theory, hypothesis, or proven fact? Was a study done? How many editors/publications were studied/polled? How many is "a great many" (i.e., what percentage of editors/journals)? What percentage of the journal's total pages do these "paid" submissions represent (one-quarter, one-half, all)? Perhaps Mr. Collins quotes these statistics in the essay and I am just uninformed, but I'd be careful in taking allegations as fact. Even if what he says is true, I'm not surprised. This practice can most likely be blamed (only my opinions, of course, as I have done no studies) on the fact that there is little (i.e., practically no) support for the arts in this country, and few readers (in comparison to total population) willing to shell out actual dollars for poetry journals. Journals have to stay alive somehow. Paper, printing, mailing, etc., etc., etc. cost money. Subscriber and advertising fees (if the journal prints ads) can only be stretched so far. Is it really all that much of a shock that in order to stay alive and viable, "a great many" of them would resort to such tactics? You rub the back of subscribers/submitters who rub yours and your journal stays on the bookstore shelves. You don't, and it goes the way of the dinosaurs (unless you have a patron with bottomless pockets and a generous heart). Does that make any of it right? Probably not, but what's a penniless editor to do? They probably feel that keeping their journals alive by featuring some "paying customers" is not something to brag about, but is the "cost" of doing and, more importantly, staying in business. I hope you and others will use your outrage over this practice in a positive way by lobbying your state representatives to shell out more dollars in support of the arts, especially in the form of grants for small journals and presses. Or if you can afford it, becoming a patron to a journal or press you admire and helping to fund their enterprise. Maybe that might help stop or minimize this practice. Love, M | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 1692 Registered: 10-2005 |
M~ Thanks for the insight into publishing. I'm sure it is very difficult to survive in the world of art. But there are people with money out there that could be doing more for art, and they must know that the most creative people are not necessarily the people who can afford agents that send in manuscript after manuscript of their poetry to win all these awards. And so what I believe that Collins is saying (though I haven't read it because BAP doesn't think putting an online excerpt of the editorial is important) is that poets who have these types of credentials get preferential treatment. It feels to me that these journals are not really serving the art culture at all and just trying to save their own skin (I'm thinking of the small, university connected zines). Maybe we don't need them as outlets. Maybe we need to mainstream poetry; put it right out there like what we are doing today with self-publishing. It's not like we ever thought there was a lot of money in this! All we need is for the so-called critics to look at things a little differently and they will see that we are in a renaissance of creativity for the written word. -Laz "Poems are not words, but fires for the cold, ropes let down to the lost, something as necessary as bread in the pockets of the hungry." ~Mary Oliver | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 25734 Registered: 11-1998 |
Dearest Laz -- thanks for adding your insights. Although I have not read the Collins' essay (which I'm nearly positive that BAP doesn't put online not because they don't think the essay is important, but rather because if they do, no one will actually buy BAP 2006), I do believe he was most likely speaking about small presses and journals who charge reading fees or run contests in which there are entry fees, not about big publishing concerns in which agents who represent the author would be involved. These small presses and journals don't normally accept or receive material from agents. Poets submit the work and pay the fees themselves. No agents are involved and credentials are somewhat irrelevant. I think what Mr. Collins is appalled by is the fact that money buys a chance to be published, that people are, in effect, buying their way onto the journals' pages. Very little poetry (in comparison to the total poetry published) is published by large publishing houses. Most is made available to the public by small presses printing full-length volumes (rare), chapbooks and journals (more common). These ventures are, in effect, self-publishing operations as most are just a small group of people who've gotten together and decided to form their own press. Very few major publishing houses are even interested in publishing poetry as there is no money in it. Not that they don't publish any, but in comparison to their total publishing volume, poetry represents a pitifully small percentage commonly sold at a loss. The reading fees and contest entry fees that these small presses charge are not really immoral. In my opinion, they are just one measure that small presses must take in order to keep their operations alive. Most are pretty upfront about it. Not upfront about giving paying entries preference, I would guess as that's rather embarrassing, but about charging reading and entry fees. They admit they they do it to keep their journals going. What Mr. Collins objects to, I'm sure, is the fact that they don't tell the public that they give submitters who pay preference over those who don't. And yes, that is objectionable, unfair, and rather distasteful. I agree. But understandable if you take into account small presses and journals rather precarious footing. It's a lovely thought that we could all self-publish, but even self-publishing requires an investiture of capital. Not just to print the book or journal, but what is more costly is marketing and promotion. What good is a book or journal no one knows is available? Ask most people who've self-published and they will tell you that they sell a few or even quite a few copies at first (mostly to friends and supporters) and then their sales drop dramatically. Few have the capital and manpower it takes to effectively market and promote their books. Eventually, after the first rush of sales, they find themselves with garages and attics and basements full of unsold volumes that they have paid for. Find a self-published poet who has sold more than a few hundred copies (even a few hundred would be a MAJOR accomplishment -- most are lucky to sell a hundred or so) and you have found what could only be called a startling phenom. It's about as common as finding a 100 carat flawless diamond. In my opinion, just because these journals are trying to save their own skin that doesn't negate the fact that they are serving the artistic community. Small, university-connected 'zines are among the best we have out there, as their connection to universities not only affords them some status, but also (I would imagine) access to the university's coffer of funds and deep-pocketed alumni. At least they have some cache and marketing power behind them. What chance do I (Ms. Nobody from Nowhere) have in convincing bookstores and other retail outlets to carry my journal/chapbook/full-length volume? Practically zero. In fact, so practically zero, it is zero. Peddle these things on the net? Same problem, only magnified. There are zillions of websites out there competing for consumer attention and consumer dollars. Unless you have the money to fund advertising and promotion, your book or journal is just going to sit there and languish on the net just as it would in your basement. No, it's not like any of us thought there was a lot of money in this, Laz. The sad fact is there's not even a little money in it in most cases. For the majority of small presses and journals, it is a breakeven (if they are very lucky) or negative sum venture (in other words, it costs them money). I'm not sure, but I'd hazard a guess that there aren't too many individuals out there anxious to jump on that particular sinking boat with their own money. They'd rather buy a real boat and float out there on the lagoon drinking margueritas and reading the last Harry Potter book (which will make its publisher, Scholastic Inc., who've sold 325 million copies of the series in 200 countries in 65 languages, a truly obscene amount of money). *smile* And who can blame them? Love, M | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 25738 Registered: 11-1998 |
P.S., Laz -- I suspect Freddie will be back shortly to yell at me for some assumption I've made about the Collins' essay I am spouting off about and have not yet read. And inform us if we're on the right track or not in this discussion. Oh, and don't tell him I said this, but I highly suspect that Freddie is being paid big bucks (under the table, of course) for promoting BAP 2006 and encouraging people (read: me) to get up off their (read: my) lazy asses and go buy it, as they (read: I) should before they open their big mouths. *LOL* | ||
| Fred Longworth
Advanced Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 1565 Registered: 05-2006 |
~M~,  BAP 2006 has Collins' essay available in psychic distribution format -- coincidentally known as .pdf -- at no charge. There's special mantra you have to chant available on the website. You do have to enroll, however, as a "supporter of BAP," which curiously costs $16.00, the same price as BAP 2006. Sigh. Fred He Is * * * * * Laz, When I interviewed the president of the American Association of Preferential Treaters, he said, "Credentials? What else is there?" He wouldn't even let me interview him until I confessed I'd been the personal secretary to Robert Bly from 1982 to 1986. That's me: a blying son-of-a-witch. Derf | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 1694 Registered: 10-2005 |
You are both so smart and entertaining! Thanks so much for this installment of As the Poetry World Turns. See you nest week! -:az "Poems are not words, but fires for the cold, ropes let down to the lost, something as necessary as bread in the pockets of the hungry." ~Mary Oliver | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 25742 Registered: 11-1998 |
Hey, Fred He Is -- you wasn't a'posed to read that. Anyway, that's quite a resume you're sportin', sport. I read that you were Collins' second cousin once-removed, on his mother's half-brother's ex-wife's father's side. Which just proves you can't believe anything you read anymore. But who needs nepotism with credentials like yours, eh?  Love, M Nah, Laz -- we ain't smart nor entertaining. We just love to aggravate each other. Try to pull my leg, Freddie!  | ||
| Fred Longworth
Advanced Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 1574 Registered: 05-2006 |
~M~, when I click on the clipart icon, the -- -- dancing banana stops dancing while the clipart matrix loads. During that "time window," all I have to do is reach up to the computer screen and grab its little leg. It even gives out a little scream!  Derf |
