| Author | Message | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 1523 Registered: 10-2005 |
I've been thinking about the I's in my work and others poems. I'd love any thoughts you might have on perspective in poetry. The following are some questions on the topic. In your writing are you most comfortable writing in first person perspective or do you find yourself trying to find something more generic? Do you feel that first person is the best perspective to write from? In the poems you like best (written by others or yourself) are you aware of the perspective? If so what does it tell you, what feeling does it convey? (Message edited by lazarus on May 27, 2007) "The trouble with poetry is that it encourages the writing of more poetry" ~Billy Collins | ||
| Bren
Moderator Username: bren Post Number: 914 Registered: 12-2001 |
Laz, Sometimes I think I use I too much, LOL like in that sentence but for me too many uses of any one word is annoying. I've read some brilliant things which repeat though so even my own statement can be proven false. I love an active voice in present tense whether I write it or read what's written by someone else but unless there are several uses of I I'm not bothered by its use. I've learned that the use of I doesn't always mean that the poem is about the author but making the reader believe it is (at least for me) is a sign of a very good writer with a diversity of voice whose work I intend to follow and read often. | ||
| Shawn Nacona
Valued Member Username: shawn_nacona Post Number: 199 Registered: 03-2007 |
Lazarus, It seems like this is a rather big topic in some workshops. I myself am a fan of confessional poetry so I love poetry in the first person, and I write a lot of work in this style, but Bren in right about the "I" not always meaning the poet in this case. A lot of my first person work is totally fictional and actually has nothing to do with me, but I like to take the voice of another character and write through that perspective in the first person. Of everything that I have posted on here I think maybe 3 of the poems are real events that happened to me, mostly in my childhood. Some poets I have found are not too fond of first person poetry, and I do understand why. We tend to naturally write in this way before exploring 2nd and 3rd person point of view. I myself have always enjoyed first person not just in poetry but also in the books that I read. I grew up reading a lot of Anne Rice and other authors who write mostly in the first person. For me it is not that I am most comfortable with the fist person, sometimes I write in the 2nd and 3rd person, but not as often. I think to some degree the work itself helps to determine what perspective I cast the poem in. One thing that stands out to me about reading and writing the first person is that is seems more real to me. When I read work with he, she, him, her, it does not seem like someone is sitting across from me in conversation and speaking to me, that is what 2nd and 3rd person lacks, at least for me. I am not sure (and I am very hesitant) to say that it is the best perspective to write from. I have read great poetry from every perspective, all of which were real, powerful, and believable. I sometimes write a poem out in each perspective and see how that works, that is how my poem "Mary" came to be in the 3rd person. I have found that some poems work better when not in the 3rd person, and others work better when not in the 1st person. Being a poet I am aware of perspective in anything that I read, I am always looking at the words they use, their line breaks, subject, form, imagery, metaphor, simile, and also point of view. It is just natural to me because when I am reading a poem I am trying to figure out what makes it work, or if I do not like the poem then I try to figure out what makes it not work for me. I am always always aware of the POV. Personally I think there is nothing wrong with the 1st person perspective, and I see tons of new work being produced from this POV, some good and some bad. I have noticed that these days there is a hesitancy to label a poem as "confessional", which is where poetry of the "I" really came from. I am not sure if I agree with this notion as so many poems that are not labeled as such are in a way confessional. To me anytime a poem confesses an event that is true its confessional in a way, and I think that even when I write a poem that is not about me little truths about my life find their way into the poem from ideas to even just a piece of furniture that I might have. I have also noticed that when you write in this way, from a first person POV, that it works best the more that you strip yourself or the "I" from the poem. In other words make yourself apparent, but do it without using too many "I's" in the poem. When I write from the first person this is how it tends to work for me, if “I” am in the poem too much then it's always pointed out in my work, and this is one thing that I have really had to get a handle on while writing from this perspective. I hope something here helps, this was a very interesting question to pose, I’ve have had fun with the answer. Cheers! Shawn Nacona (Message edited by Shawn_nacona on May 28, 2007) | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Moderator Username: garydawg Post Number: 17091 Registered: 07-2001 |
Laz, the other important consideration is tense - present or past - I find the strongest poetry often in present and that often works best with first person. However, in the hands of a the right poet, any tense, person works because the words dance regardless. Smiles. Gary | ||
| Helen Margaret Rees
Valued Member Username: cinnamonbrandy Post Number: 290 Registered: 09-2006 |
A poet should always be selfish. Who else would you want to be like? Helen | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 1527 Registered: 10-2005 |
I thank everyone who commented on this subject. I'm still mulling it over. So far, what I'm thinking is that there has to be a perspective, a poem can't just march up and be, so first person really does serve a purpose. I like what Bren and Shawn said about the first person not necessarily being me, but someone I'm speaking through. I also agree with Gary that tense is a factor, maybe more important than POV. Then, there's the personified metaphor such as "life is a tail wind on a boat going the other way." The "I" is implied here and might not need much mention at all. I know I struggle to create poems that will have a wide appeal and POV is starting to be something I'm very interested in getting a handle on. -Laz "The trouble with poetry is that it encourages the writing of more poetry" ~Billy Collins | ||
| Fred Longworth
Advanced Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 1433 Registered: 05-2006 |
As an interesting oblique, I find it curious that the first-person in court is called "testimony" and the second- and third-persons are called "hearsay." Similarly, in ordinary parlance, the third-person bears the stigma of "gossip." So . . . writing in first-person tends to augment the poem's authority. The trade-off is that, at its worst, the first-person ushers in narcissism, vanity, self-indulgance, and ecocentrism. Fred | ||
| Hephaestes
Intermediate Member Username: hephaestes Post Number: 341 Registered: 12-2006 |
Choosing a POV likens to focusing a camera lens. The I personalizes and as Fred mentions adds authority. It brings the camera in close. We might not see the whole scene. Often the I is left undescribed. The third person narrative may express itself as gossip or hearsay, it can also be manipulated to produce an "objective" style. As if reading from a scientist's notebook, the subjective center doesn't exist -- note only in terms of construction. Objectivity is of course a fiction. The first person plural can create a community voice. The second person can create an intimate voice that in many cases involves a hidden I, the you being reflexive. | ||
| Thomas P. Bird
New member Username: tom_bird Post Number: 25 Registered: 05-2007 |
It's interesting we are discussiong this. Just read a book by Ted Kooser who states there are to many "I's" in poetry these days. But then again, poetry is a way of 'seeing' is it not? (pun intended).I too struggle with this question . . . but then many poems are very personal and can only be viewed through the first person. I have tried to change the person but went back because I found the poem became too distant -- at least for me. Tom | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 25538 Registered: 11-1998 |
An interesting question you've posed, Laz, and I enjoyed reading through everyone's responses. I will try not to repeat what they've said, though I generally agree with all of them. Point of view is one of hundreds of decisions an author must make, and it's not always an easy one. While some subjects lend themselves naturally to first person or third person, for instance, some can be written from any POV and still be effective. I think the object of the game is to try to pick the most effective voice. What I do if I question this is to write out the poem in first, then second, then third person. I then study all three versions, reading them out loud and numerous times while attempting to decide which sounds the most authentic. It's usually the content that dictates the choice -- i.e., some subjects are very intimate and lend themselves to first person detailing, some subjects require a distancing and work best if the narrator remains somewhat detached and writes things from the perspective of some objectively viewed "he" or "she." And there are some cases in which all the points of view will seem equal in effectiveness. Then it is a matter of author preference. As I said, the most effective way I've found to make POV choice is to write an individual piece out in all three and see how it feels different when told up close and personal (I) as opposed to from a safe distance (she). When you do it this way, the cream of the crop usually rises to the top. Thanks for the thought-provoking question, Laz. Hope something I've offered will help. Love, M | ||
| Lazarus
Advanced Member Username: lazarus Post Number: 1543 Registered: 10-2005 |
I've enjoyed reading all the comments on this question. I plan on keeping your ideas handy for reference. I found that in thinking about the POV I came up with a few poem types that lend themselves to a less egocentric view point, such as prayer and wish poems, poems with questions and advice, and description poems (like haiku). However, I've come to believe that the personal "I" is not something one can get very far away from in poetry. At best, it is something we are able to mask. -Laz "The trouble with poetry is that it encourages the writing of more poetry" ~Billy Collins | ||
| Fred Longworth
Advanced Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 1472 Registered: 05-2006 |
There is of course a fourth option: no person. This might be thought of as the omnicient, objective, or phenomenological eye. Fred | ||
| Sarah Hile
New member Username: teensypoet Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2007 |
There are so many variables in a poem and the "I" issue is just one of many. As much as you have to pay attention to any part of your poetry (i.e. form, subject, line breaks, etc.) you need to pay attention to this issue also, but not more or less than any other. There will always be debate on this point and I do agree with Ted Kooser so far as not putting yourself in the poem, but there are also poems that need to be written from that perspective. I do believe that it is a good idea to write the poem from other perspectives to see if you can get more out of the poem and this is often where a critique group comes in handy. I think it depends a lot on what your motivation is for inserting yourself in a poem and only you can answer that question. Good luck, it's a tricky issue at best. |
