| Author | Message | ||
| Kevin C.
New member Username: task Post Number: 33 Registered: 07-2005 |
Personally, I think it's very difficult to pull of a rhyming poem without it sounding childish...ie "roses are red" and all that. Rhyming in itself has become cliched. My personal opinion is that rhyming should be avoided unless it's in lyrics or involved in some traditional poetic form such as iambic pentameter. Of course, one of my mentors mantras was "Ogden Nash writes trash" so I guess I've been conditioned. I'm all for ryming and illitration in moderation though and CAN be a very powerful tool if used properly. | ||
| Christopher T George
Advanced Member Username: chrisgeorge Post Number: 1773 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Kevin When rhyming is done well, you hardly notice it. Look at the below poem by Philip Larkin. A number of the other British poets who began in the thirties and forties were also very adept at such rhyming poems, e.g., W. H. Auden and Stephen Spender. The rhyming is just one part of the poem when it is used along with the thoughts expressed by the poet and works along with other devices such as allusions, alliteration, assonance, etc., all of the devices in the poet's cupboard of tricks. The rhyming should not be seen to dominate and in which case it might become "sing songy" as you say. I do agree that traditional poetic forms such as the sonnet often lend themselves more readily to rhyme but that is not always so as the Larkin poem demonstrates. I don't think Ogden Nash is a good example of "why not to rhyme" since he was a light verse poet and the rhymes were often used for humorous effect. Best regards Chris George ****************** Aubade I work all day, and get half-drunk at night. Waking at four to soundless dark, I stare. In time the curtain-edges will grow light. Till then I see what's really always there: Unresting death, a whole day nearer now, Making all thought impossible but how And where and when I shall myself die. Arid interrogation: yet the dread Of dying, and being dead, Flashes afresh to hold and horrify. The mind blanks at the glare. Not in remorse --The good not done, the love not given, time Torn off unused--nor wretchedly because An only life can take so long to climb Clear of its wrong beginnings, and may never; But at the total emptiness for ever, The sure extinction that we travel to And shall be lost in always. Not to be here, Not to be anywhere, And soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true. This is a special way of being afraid No trick dispels. Religion used to try, That vast moth-eaten musical brocade Created to pretend we never die, And specious stuff that says No rational being Can fear a thing it will not feel, not seeing That this is what we fear--no sight, no sound, No touch or taste or smell, nothing to think with, Nothing to love or link with, The anaesthetic from which none come round. And so it stays just on the edge of vision, A small unfocused blur, a standing chill That slows each impulse down to indecision. Most things may never happen: this one will, And realisation of it rages out In furnace-fear when we are caught without People or drink. Courage is no good: It means not scaring others. Being brave Lets no one off the grave. Death is no different whined at than withstood. Slowly light strengthens, and the room takes shape. It stands plain as a wardrobe, what we know, Have always known, know that we can't escape, Yet can't accept. One side will have to go. Meanwhile telephones crouch, getting ready to ring In locked-up offices, and all the uncaring Intricate rented world begins to rouse. The sky is white as clay, with no sun. Work has to be done. Postmen like doctors go from house to house. Philip Larkin Editor, Desert Moon Review http://www.desertmoonreview.com/ http://chrisgeorge.netpublish.net/ http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com | ||
| Joshua Johnston
New member Username: silverfire Post Number: 11 Registered: 06-2005 |
I would agree that it can be hard to do rhyme well. At the same time, I disagree that rhyme is childish unless done in moderation. It all depends on the type of rhyme, if it's wrenched rhyme, etc. As Christopher said above, if the rhyme is too noticeable, if it draws too much attention to itself, it can make the poem have a sing-song effect. That's not necessarily a bad thing; look at Hiawatha, for example. That poem has a *very* strong sing-song effect, made by the rhythm and the rhyme combined. That effect is exactly what Whitman intended for that poem, and is part of its appeal. Also, I've noticed that some people think rhyming makes a poem silly or childish. Yet the same people don't consider serious songs to be silly or childish, even though songs rhyme. I have to wonder why that is. Is it simply that they're conditioned to dislike rhyme in written/spoken poetry, but not songs? Or is it that the music that accompanies the songs overpowers their "rhyme is bad" instincts? Or something else? All in all, I have to say I like rhyme, and find it enhances poetry. Usually. :D | ||
| steve
Moderator Username: twobyfour Post Number: 85 Registered: 05-2005 |
hi guys just chiming in here. i've done both kinds of poems and the rule i use is the word choices should be content driven. in other words, i ask, 'is this a reasonable word choice if i wasn't writing in form or in rhyme?' when your word choices are obviously made to 'fit' the piece into a form or rhyme scheme, that is when it becomes poor poetry. another thought on rhyme, try and do your rhymes in places that do not pause. i.e., in chris' example, s1 'yet the dread of dying' is the sentence yet the line ends on 'dread' in the middle of a phrase and the line should be read without pausing. doing rhymes without 'end-stop' lines, or using 'enjambment' helps hide the rhyme a bit and smooths the read. thx s | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Senior Member Username: garyb Post Number: 4447 Registered: 07-2001 |
Pardon me, but silly, that is to dis rhyme. If the Big Tent can hold Beats, Surreal and church poetry, it can hold rhyme, meter and all the formal forms (though I do not like some because they defeat me - sestinas for example) - and in any style from Raliegh and Chaucer to Dame Edith and Frost. Kevin, sorry, but your definition includes quality. How good or bad a poem is should not determine whether it is written. Unless you have Willie's talent, everything you do for a bit will be sub-standard as is the same for free verse, unless you have Walt's talent. And most poetry is not even average matter what we say on the forums. Besides I like childish esp fond of nursery rhymes, long classical ballads and Lear. Read the old dudes, maybe starting with Moyer's Language of Life and you will see rhyme can ring and amaze - Annabelle Lee, Doone, Hopkins, Frost, Keats and Yeats, Bryon and Shelly, Woodsworth, and even some not in favor - Noyes, Longfellow and the One Horse Shay... Smiles and thanks. Gary Drop in read the new MindFire, 2005's first Go in through http://www.mindfirerenew.com/ to get to the issue in a click or two. | ||
| Emusing
Moderator Username: emusing Post Number: 1462 Registered: 08-2003 |
Chris thanks for the "Aubade". A perfect example of a good rhyme. It's been said here one way or the other. I believe it is more difficult to pull off a good rhyme than a decent free verse. The sophistication required to produce metered rhyme requires a skill level few have mastered. I believe most of the modern rhymes you run across are just poets who have not yet mastered the ability to build the foundation of a poem which can communicate well to their audience. This is doubly impeded by using the frame of rhyme to structure the theme. E | ||
| "A-Bear"
Moderator Username: dane Post Number: 1203 Registered: 11-1998 |
“Well, I set my monkey on the log And ordered him to do the Dog He wagged his tail and shook his head And he went and did the Cat instead He's a weird monkey, very funky. Yippee! I'm a poet, and I know it. Hope I don't blow it.” - Robert Zimmerman Point being, some have it and some don’t. In these times it’s all a matter of what sells and what doesn’t. You won’t please everybody regardless of your style or talent and that’s a fact. But if it sings for you, by all means, belt it out and share it with an audience. Not everyone is going to appreciate your voice but it’s very possible a few will. Rhyme away and have fun with it - you won’t blow it, I promise. D |
