| Author | Message | ||
| Howard R
New member Username: writerhoward Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2009 |
In another Wild Poetry forum, readers are invited to match the syllabic structure of this poem: This Is Just To Say by William Carlos Williams I have eaten the plums that were in the icebox and which you were probably saving for breakfast Forgive me they were delicious so sweet and so cold What is the significance of the poem's syllabic structure? Williams had to intend to have a deeper structure than one just based upon the number of syllables on each line. This especially has to be the case given the absence of repetition of the syllabic structure. (Message edited by writerhoward on January 17, 2009) | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Moderator Username: garydawg Post Number: 26897 Registered: 07-2001 |
There is a lot of info of WCW's style on the web, but essentially, he was searching for what he called an American idiom, a way to capture the American voice in poetry. To really capture what he attempted, you need to read entire works. For example, Wheelbarrow is but a short part of the long prose-poetry work "Spring is All." Patterson is another challenging work that we wrote and revised over decades. Smiles. Gary BTW, Wiki links to a number of good sites Celebrate Walt with Gary: http://www.poetrykit.org/pkl/tw10/tw4conte.htm | ||
| Howard R
New member Username: writerhoward Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2009 |
To me, a syllabic structure is like a hut made of straw; whereas, for example, an iambic structure is a house made of brick. How does syllable count alone provide a rhythm that can instill life into a poem? (Message edited by writerhoward on January 17, 2009) | ||
| Will Eastland
Intermediate Member Username: dwillo Post Number: 905 Registered: 07-2006 |
In extended passages, a set number of syllables per line made up of a complex combination of feet-- iambs, dactyls, trochees, etc, becomes a larger pattern. Sort of like jazz, where the chord pattern keeps repeating and the solo instrument does different variations on top, while still remaining inside the "super structure". I believe that this works best in longer lines, and for longer (20+ lines) pieces. Ron Rash has done some nice things with syllabics. Walk carefully-- your shoe is what you shine your shadow with. ~Jessica Goodfellow | ||
| Kathy Paupore
Moderator Username: kathy Post Number: 10694 Registered: 12-2003 |
Howard, the exercise is for those who want to try to write syllabic poems, not to discuss it's merits as a form. I find WCW's syllabic poems to be like Eastern forms: haiku, tanka, etc. A lot more about image and sound than iambs. I have Volume Two of WCW's Collected Poems, he writes in many forms. Kathy You're invited to: Wild Flowers Free verse in not, of course, free.--Mary Oliver | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5331 Registered: 05-2006 |
Howard, if you want to see syllabics in action, I suggest you read something of Philip Levine, for example, his volumes What Work Is and The Simple Truth. Fred From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| Howard R
New member Username: writerhoward Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2009 |
Will, thanks for mentioning Ron Rash. I just read one of his poems, The Bridge. I enjoyed reading it. | ||
| Jeffrey S. Lange
Advanced Member Username: runatyr Post Number: 1143 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hi Howard, As Will has noted, an iamb is a metrical foot... that is, an iamb is what you are calling "syllabic structure", as it is made up of syllables. And in that way, WCW's poem is also made up of syllables. Perhaps more importantly, it is constructed that way quite on purpose, and even an irregular rhythm is a rhythm. So I suppose I wouldn't say it's fair to call it straw to brick. They're apples and oranges. (How's that for a mixed metaphor? ;) The placement of syllabic stresses and the number of beats in a line is still important to contemporary writers... some people hear this irregular music quite unconsciously while others listen carefully for it. In any case, in the best works, the music is there... in both iamb-laden and iamb-free poetry. ;) (Message edited by runatyr on January 18, 2009) | ||
| Dan Tompsett
Valued Member Username: db_tompsett Post Number: 256 Registered: 07-2007 |
This is just to say I have smoked the last bud that was in the candy tin and which you were probably saving for sunrise Forgive me it was so sticky so tight and so inhaleable © Dan Tompsett "People who believe a lot of crap are better off." Charles Bukowski | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 32949 Registered: 11-1998 |
So, that's what happened to it. I bet the candy's all gone too.  | ||
| Dan Tompsett
Valued Member Username: db_tompsett Post Number: 257 Registered: 07-2007 |
Hee hee. (~)v(~) "People who believe a lot of crap are better off." Charles Bukowski | ||
| Richard M
New member Username: youngjed Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2008 |
My amateur sleuthing on syllabic structure (OK OK wiki-sleuthing) suggested that 'syllabic poems' are ones that have a regular number (and perhaps pattern) of syllables and that only the red wheel barrow of the three had this, the other two involved deliberate and subtle variations (which may be a stab at the american idiom mentioned above). I've no idea of all this is right of course, but thought I'd share.... | ||
| Kathy Paupore
Moderator Username: kathy Post Number: 10714 Registered: 12-2003 |
Maybe WCW's intent was not to have the same number of syllables in each line, or the same pattern of syllables in each stanza? Maybe he played with stresses too? Maybe he had a general rule like no less than 2 syllables or more than 5 syllables per line? Maybe he wrote syllabics like he was writing orders or making notes in charts? He was an MD if I'm remembering right, and his precise observations and concise use of words reminds me of that as a nurse. Maybe he had no predetermined intent with his syllabics? Poets don't often tell their secrets. Kathy You're invited to: Wild Flowers Free verse in not, of course, free.--Mary Oliver | ||
| Fred Longworth
Senior Member Username: sandiegopoet Post Number: 5343 Registered: 05-2006 |
The strength of the WCW poem derives in part from the fact that it reenacts a common experience that people living together have, like losing the car keys. * * * * * That said, the syllabic nature of the poem misses the point. The poem is actually made up of a series of phrases, in which each phrase withholds what the next phrase discloses, and so on iteratively, until the poem's final line. This withhold/disclose process is more salient in this composition than in most short poems. The use of the word "cold" in the final line holds a double meaning: the literal coldness of the fruit itself, the implied coldness of stealing a housemate's food. Fred From Bambi: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." From me: "Even consciousness, a pastiche of recycled cans." | ||
| Howard R
New member Username: writerhoward Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2009 |
Fred, Your comment that "The poem is actually made up of a series of phrases, in which each phrase withholds what the next phrase discloses, and so on iteratively, until the poem's final line." reminded me of another poem: To A Daughter Leaving Home by by Linda Pastan. In it, Pastan seems to use that same technique. (Message edited by writerhoward on January 19, 2009) |
