| Author | Message | ||
| Deborah P Kolodji
Intermediate Member Username: dkolodji Post Number: 964 Registered: 04-2005 |
The cinquain train has been going on for a few years now and I thought I might like to talk a bit about linking cinquains. As you all know, cinquains are one of my favorite subjects. That said, I have a lot of pet peeves about them. The cinquain train exercise could be sooooo much more than it currently is. Much as I love cinquains, sometimes it makes me wince and it frustrates me because it doesn't live up to what it could be if we just all worked a bit harder at it. It only would take a few things to elevate it from mindless cinquain chatter to a true piece of art.... 1. Try to make each link a true poem - not just a silly quip with the correct count. 2. Try to make the last two syllables a line that really works as a first line. If the last two syllables are weak, then the next poem cannot be as good as it could be if the first poster just takes a little more time to construct a line that works as a great first line for the next poster. For example, a line that starts with a proposition or verb probably won't make a good first line. So that I don't single out anyone in particular, let me make up an example. Say cinquain #1 is: Beauty all around her, the quiet of forest.... she lifts her in a prayer of thanks. There's nothing wrong with this as a standalone cinquain. But then, Cinquain #2 has to start with "of thanks" And it's really, really hard to write a decent cinquain (as opposed to a parody of one) that starts with "of thanks". But, if Cinquain #1 was: Beauty all around her, the quiet of forest.... then as her heart fills with prayer, songbirds. Then, Cinquain #2 would have to start with "songbirds," a much, much, much better starting point. So, I'd like to beg my fellow cinquain trainers, please, please be considerate of the next poet in the train! Some might like the challenge of a difficult beginning, but I think the cadence of the resulting string would be so much worth it! (end of lecture - thanks for indulging my tantrum) (Message edited by dkolodji on February 13, 2008) | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Moderator Username: garydawg Post Number: 22422 Registered: 07-2001 |
Debbie's post is perfect from one who may have versed something like what she examines so neat... Smiles. Gary | ||
| Tina Hoffman
Advanced Member Username: tina_hoffman Post Number: 1289 Registered: 05-2007 |
So neat Debbie! Sincere cinquains need not be trained, but we're linked. Give poets two too; follow. 2, err, or 3? lol (Message edited by tina_hoffman on February 14, 2008) "One word frees us of all the weight and pain of life: that word is love." ~Sophocles | ||
| Judy Thompson
Intermediate Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 807 Registered: 11-2007 |
I think Deborah's comments can be applied to many of the exercises, where the thrust has become to make it silly, too hard, or too simplistic, leaving the field open for maybe three or four players, while everyone else drifts away. | ||
| brenda morisse
Advanced Member Username: moritric Post Number: 1314 Registered: 04-2007 |
Deborah and Judy, I don't agree with you. Some fine cinquains are being written on the trains, and I have been inspired by the words left on the six train. As a matter of fact, there's "romance" on the six. Really, I have a love affair with all of the poets on the trains. Sure, there are times when some of the words aren't as inspiring as other times, but, oh well, one time I was left with macaroni and cheese, I thought what the heck am I going to write about, the poem that resulted was pretty damn tasty. And I'm grateful that those words were left for me. If you choose not to join in because the words are too simple, too hard, too silly, too too, well, it's your loss. I've seen some fine work as a result of the trains. with regards, brenda (Message edited by moritric on February 14, 2008) | ||
| Deborah P Kolodji
Intermediate Member Username: dkolodji Post Number: 965 Registered: 04-2005 |
Brenda, I think you are missing my point. It's not that good cinquains aren't being written, it's just that the potential of the train isn't being realized. I feel that sometimes people are in too much a hurry to make a link that they don't think about what they are leaving behind. With just a bit more attention to craft, they would become better cinquain writers. I thought the purpose of WPF is to become better poets? And, it's not that I don't participate....I've been a long participant of the cinquain train. It's just that I'd like to see cinquain writers on the train try to be better cinquain poets and not just see it as a game. | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 28652 Registered: 11-1998 |
Thank you, Deborah, for the information on cinquains. You have much to teach and we have much to learn. I'm sure people are very appreciative for the information. I know I am. As to the trains themselves, I hope there is room onboard for everyone -- serious, silly, beautiful, ugly, skinny, and fat. I hope riding the trains is educational and fun. Many people use them as a vehicle to learn and to practice, but some just wanna bounce up and down and have a good time until they get off at the next stop. No harm in that, right?  Love, M | ||
| Ann Metlay
Senior Member Username: wordsrworthy Post Number: 2960 Registered: 08-2007 |
As someone who actively participates in Balancing Qi, ande in the cinquian train, I feel my voice should be heard here. When you first put something into your post, Deborah, about leaving good linking words for the next cinquain, I have been very cognizant of this, and I have noticed a positive change over the past several weeks both in the links and in the quality of the cinqs. As for the "silly, hard or simplistic" comment, if you want different words, put them in. I do not feel there is room for only a couple of "players". We would love to have you join in. At this point I relish the opportunity to work with balancing qi because it is where I pick up most of my ideas for further work, and that can happen with any words that are left there. Ann I am paying attention to small beauties, whatever I have--as if it were our duty to find things to love, to bind ourselves to this world. (Sharon Olds) | ||
| Deborah P Kolodji
Intermediate Member Username: dkolodji Post Number: 967 Registered: 04-2005 |
Ann - I've been participating in the cinquain train for years (since 2005). So, I think I've already joined in. In fact, I joined Wild Poetry Forum originally for the sole express purpose of participating in the Cinquain Train. Yes, I have also noticed an improvement. I just thought the topic might make a good discussion point and I didn't think the discussion belonged on the train. I didn't make the "silly, hard or simplistic" comment, although you appeared to be addressing it to me. But as for changing the words - well, actually, that is one of my other pet peeves. Since the rule is to repeat the two syllables, I think they should be repeated EXACTLY! lol (Message edited by dkolodji on February 14, 2008) | ||
| Deborah P Kolodji
Intermediate Member Username: dkolodji Post Number: 971 Registered: 04-2005 |
M - I'm afraid I'm guilty of not having a good sense of humor when it comes to the cinquain in the sense that I've worked very hard to make it taken seriously as a poetry form, so it actually bothers me in some odd way when people trivialize it by writing in the right syllable count for a cinquain and don't consider line breaks I hear fingernails on black boards when this happens. I realize this is all on me - and I should probably sip some wine and loosen up a bit, but it's just that a cinquain can express so much in so little words that I just want others to share my love of the form and take it seriously. | ||
| ~M~
Board Administrator Username: mjm Post Number: 28659 Registered: 11-1998 |
I totally understand, Deborah. You have done what you can, and that is to love the form and to teach the form. What people do after that is out of our hands. Speaking of out of hands, when you are done with that bottle, pass it over to me. A little wine should make me love this: "it by writing in the right syllable count for a cinquain and don't consider line breaks" Ah, well, forget the wine after all. Silly me -- I already do love it. It makes me giggle.  Love, M | ||
| Ann Metlay
Senior Member Username: wordsrworthy Post Number: 2961 Registered: 08-2007 |
Deborah, I am sorry if it seemed that my reference to "silly, hard or simplistic>' That was directed to the person who used those words first. Ann I am paying attention to small beauties, whatever I have--as if it were our duty to find things to love, to bind ourselves to this world. (Sharon Olds) | ||
| Judy Thompson
Intermediate Member Username: judyt54 Post Number: 810 Registered: 11-2007 |
i have a name, Ann. You could have just used it. *s* | ||
| Deborah P Kolodji
Intermediate Member Username: dkolodji Post Number: 972 Registered: 04-2005 |
Ann, There was no need to apologize. I just thought that you had confused my message with Judy's. | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Moderator Username: garydawg Post Number: 22430 Registered: 07-2001 |
Cinquian, tanka, haiku - the short forms make me smile at their music, simplicity, power... | ||
| Tina Hoffman
Advanced Member Username: tina_hoffman Post Number: 1302 Registered: 05-2007 |
I absolutely adore the trains. I take them seriously AND use them as a place to play. But in all I strive to write well, and to learn from others who post there. And DEFINITELY am inspired, frustrated, delighted, sparked in some way creatively with every ride I take. Power, your words wielded have now unleashed in me my own creativity; free flowing. "One word frees us of all the weight and pain of life: that word is love." ~Sophocles | ||
| Christopher T George
Senior Member Username: chrisgeorge Post Number: 6165 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Debbie I really don't know what the answer to this is because a great ending line does not always make for a good beginning line for the next person. Neither do I think the person posting necessarily has to make that line amenable to the person following: their mission should be to create a good cinquain not to make it easy for the next person. Besides, if the ending line creates a difficulty for the person following, I should think that is one of the challenges of the cinquain train, isn't it? I think the cinquain train serves its purpose in providing a great exercise for Wilders to be creative. I know I find the cinquain train and other forms in the community area to be very useful for me to be able to get my creative juices going. All the best Chris Editor, Desert Moon Review http://www.desertmoonreview.com Co-Editor, Loch Raven Review http://www.lochravenreview.net http://chrisgeorge.netpublish.net/ | ||
| Deborah P Kolodji
Intermediate Member Username: dkolodji Post Number: 979 Registered: 04-2005 |
There are some line constructions that work well as last lines but are impossible as first lines, when writing in normal grammatical English, so it becomes more than a challenge, it becomes a liability. That's what I was trying to address. I think that a person who writes a cinquain for the train shouldn't be in such a hurry to put something down that they leave something that can't possibly become a decent poem because the two syllables as a beginning of a phrase would become a grammatical finger nail scratch on a blackboard. Lately, this hasn't been happening and the ending lines on the train have been pretty good. But, I just think that when writing collaborative poetry, participants should be considerate of the poets following them. It should be part of the exercise. So, I tend to look at it not as making it "easy" for the next poet, but instead that the person who doesn't take into consideration the workability of the last line isn't really completing the challenge. I am speaking with several years of experience of writing and publishing collaborative poetry and had meant the comments to be helpful not accusatory. The challenge should be to (1) write a good poem which follows the poem before it using the preceding poems first line and (2) writing a good ending line that works as a first line. If a poet only does #1, in my opinion, he/she isn't completing the challenge. It's EASY to just write first without considering the poet coming after, but a poet who tries to write a good poem and leave a good ending will become a better poet because it is a way of testing every word you use both forward and backward. And, if participants make a conscious effort, the resulting sequence will be more enjoyable and satisfying for all. Debbie (Message edited by dkolodji on February 19, 2008) | ||
| Gary Blankenship
Moderator Username: garydawg Post Number: 22461 Registered: 07-2001 |
Easy, the cinq's first line - more difficult, the last. Connecting the two even more - cept yours... | ||
| Christopher T George
Senior Member Username: chrisgeorge Post Number: 6166 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hello Debbie Okay I understand where you are coming from, although it seems to me that the requirements of the Cinquain Train only require that the train be carried on, not that the poster be particularly required to make it "easy" for the person who follows. In other words, as I interpret it, the requirements of the thread are what they should be, that the next poster takes the two words, whatever they are, and begins the next cinquain with them. Once again, as I said before, I feel that is part of the challenge, even if they may not necessarily facilitate a good cinqain -- it is up the next person to make of it what they will, and possibly they will rise to the challenge and write an exceptional cinq.  Chris (Message edited by Chrisgeorge on February 19, 2008) Editor, Desert Moon Review http://www.desertmoonreview.com Co-Editor, Loch Raven Review http://www.lochravenreview.net http://chrisgeorge.netpublish.net/ | ||
| Deborah P Kolodji
Intermediate Member Username: dkolodji Post Number: 982 Registered: 04-2005 |
Chris, Again, the issue is not "making it easier" for the person who follows, the issue is that if you are writing a poem that someone is going to connect to, I consider it sloppy writing to NOT consider the implications of what might follow. Just that the little extra time a poet spends crafting a poem can make a big difference. It not only can enhance the quality of the poem being crafted, it also can improve the overall quality of the whole string. So, it's not about what is easy. It's about craft. Debbie (Message edited by dkolodji on February 19, 2008) |
